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Does Wikipedia have a left-leaning bias?

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I'm interested in knowing whether Wikipedia inadvertently has a particular bias. I know that everything has to be written in a neutral point of view and is not supposed to take sides on anything. I found the article on this topic here, Ideological bias on Wikipedia, but I found the article too confusing. I'm assuming that many of the sources that Wikipedia cites, mostly mainstream media, seem to have a left-leaning bias which may contribute to its bias since almost all of Wikipedia's info comes from mainstream media. I am hoping that I can get a quick summary on whether Wikipedia has a bias or not or if it leans a certain way. I hope to hear from you soon. Interstellarity (talk) 22:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that theme has come up. Search for "bias" in the archive. 176.0.164.84 (talk) 01:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

There is an article on this topic which relates academic and public commentary. See Ideological bias on Wikipedia. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:17, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ceyockey, you perhaps didn't notice that @Interstellarity has already cited that article. ColinFine (talk) 13:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Interstellarity, bear in mind that political "left/centre/right" are subjective perceptions, unless everyone agrees to use a particular scheme that has measurable parameters. They are also culturally specific, and their meanings in one country rarely exactly correspond to their meanings in another: this makes assessing the 'lean' in a global encyclopaedia rather problematic. "Centres" also shift over time – see Overton window and Left–right political spectrum.

For example, as I am British and you are (I will presume) American, my perceived political "centre" will probably be a good deal leftward of your "centre". I would consider my position in a British context to be mildly left of centre on some (more social and environmental) issues and mildly right on other (more economic) issues: you would probably consider me fairly left-wing from your point of view, and I would probably (given your query) consider you fairly right wing. How then can we agree on "bias in Wikipedia"?

It may well be that the Left-right political spectrum model is oversimplified, outdated and inadequate. Others are available, see Political spectrum. Two axes models are generally more insightful, and I suspect one with three axes would be even better. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 20:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for replying. I will confirm that I am an American. There doesn't appear to be any way to ping you, but I'm sure you watch this page a lot. I've been trying to educate myself on this issue and I read your comments. It appears that determining any type of bias on Wikipedia is difficult since the political systems in each country are different from one another. I was reading Donald Trump's article on Wikipedia and I thought to myself that the article is biased against him just by reading the article, but I have learned that Wikipedia gets its facts from the sources which is usually mainstream media that is critical of him. That's probably why I thought Wikipedia had a left-leaning bias. Interstellarity (talk) 22:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I really don't wanna be that guy. But Wikipedia calls national socialism "far right" to make right-wingers look bad, or at least that's what I think. Flying disc 1 (talk) 03:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia should not be expected to exclude relevant factual information on þe basis þat it makes certain people or groups "look bad". Þat would be an egregious example of bias. GenderBiohazard (talk) 15:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

National Socialism is, objectively, a far-right movement. No bias there. Drdr150 (talk) 16:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is used for informative purposes. As users come to edit, they may change the facts and alter the article. Various factors may be included in their changes. Bias may be shown in their changes, highlighting different facts inside their edits. There possibly could be some excessively biased articles that show changes of users. Gooners Fan in North London (talk) 19:42, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Good observation I saw a church rewriting a wiki post to be more in line with the tone of wikipedia and less biased and they blocked them and deleted the edits. It’s not even in the log, luckily I have copied it to show openminded people like you. IamNeutrality (talk) 20:19, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like WP:COI. GenderBiohazard (talk) 21:57, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Is it not possible that The conservative people work while the left poor masses on welfare have lots of free time to spend on drugs, editing articles etc? Let’s gather the facts and see who is the majority of people with liberal free time for editing!

I don’t know yet only a guess! IamNeutrality (talk) 09:06, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

First, a church should not be editing Wikipedia as accounts represent individuals and plus, it was your sockpuppet account and it got blocked so I can see why it might upset you. I don't see how you can justify the edit it made though. But since you are blocked as well for being NOTHERE, I won't expect a response. By the way, I think I know a lot of editors on this platform after 11 years and they are neither on welfare or on drugs. Random assumption on your point. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Paul Krugman has observed, "Facts Have a Well-Known Liberal Bias." Maurice Magnus (talk) 00:40, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

No, Wikipedia is not leftist. I'm a neoliberal and do just fine here. But to fill in the details, see https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07942-8 tgeorgescu (talk) 19:55, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

how to correctly cite a news source via Proquest

Hi Folks,

I would appreciate a specific reply to the Visual Editor. I have old newspaper stories I am using in my draft article. I had inserted them manually under news. Most of the stories were found using Proquest. The Proquest links seem to have vanished after I hit publish.

I am wondering if I ought to manually cite the news stories as under a website, rather than under 'news', as these old stories were acessed under Proquest. I am also wondering if anyone might know why the Proquest url disappeared when I sent my draft for publication.

Here is the link to my draft:

Draft:Zipporah Ritchie Woodward

Bizzyfan (talk) 17:58, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

You have not edited the draft after you submitted it last week (7 October 2024). Perhaps you can try again now: just fix one reference, click "Publish", and see if the draft updates. If it doesn't, you can check the draft's edit history and your own contributions log.

I prefer to cite under "news" than the generic website. That way, if the link rots and cannot be rescued, a "news" citation allows the link to be removed entirely and the newspaper article to be cited as if it were an entirely offline citation (i.e. citing the hard copy). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:50, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I very much appreciate the reply and the help. I will give that a whirl. To clarify: you are suggesting I edit a citation, by keeping it under "news", but adding in the Proquest link - i.e. try to add in the Proquest link again. Correct? Bizzyfan (talk) 19:06, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bizzyfan Have you checked the Visual Editor referencing tutorial at WP:INTREFVE? It is a much easier way to reference and it shouldn't take too long for you to convert the plain-text references into the cite news reference. Remember, the Visual Editor works with in-line citations, you create the citation in the body of the text and it automatically generates a reference list. Qcne (talk) 20:55, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Yes, for sure I checked the Visual Editor referencing tutorial at Wikipedia:INTREFVE. Before doing the references, and then again after my draft was declined. I can't figure out what I am doing wrong. I put in all the citations, and the Proquest links manually, under the news category. Bizzyfan (talk) 21:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bizzyfan, don't put them in manually. The software will create the numbers. Put each source at the position in the articles instead of a number like [4], following the instructions at Help:Introduction to referencing with VisualEditor/2. The software will create the number there and list the reference at the end of the article even though the actual text is in the article. A link to proquest is not needed. StarryGrandma (talk) 21:30, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you folks, very much. I am now unclear as to whether I actually need to include the Proquest links or not. User:StarryGrandma is suggesting I don't need to link to Proquest.

But without inserting a link, how can an editor verify my sources if he/she/they can't view them online?

Thank you User:Cordless Larry for the Template:ProQuest link. Despite your excellent instructions, I still am unsure as to how to make use of it, via the link. If only I had someone to stand over my shoulder in PERSON (what a concept!) that would make this go so quickly.

User:Rotideypoc41352 thank you for going to my draft and helping with the citations. User:Rotideypoc41352 what are your thoughts - do I need to add in a way for an editor to verify my sources?

Much appreciated from bizzyfan in Vancouver. Bizzyfan (talk) 18:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

If you want to use that template, you can just copy-paste it from my example below, replacing the document ID with the one for the newspaper article you're referencing. You can also copy-paste the citation template, replacing what's after each equals sign with the relevant information from your article. It is indeed unnecessary to link to ProQuest - it might be nice for those with access to be able to verify the source there, but sources don't need to be available online in the first place to be usable (see WP:SOURCEACCESS). Cordless Larry (talk) 18:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you folks, very much. I am now unclear as to whether I actually need to include the Proquest links or not. User:StarryGrandma is suggesting I don't need to link to Proquest.

But if so, how can an editor verify my sources if he/she/they can't view them online?

Thank you User:Cordless Larry for the Template:ProQuest link. Despite your excellent instructions, I still am unsure as to how to make use of it, via the link. If only I had someone to stand over my shoulder in PERSON (what a concept!) that would make this go so quickly. Bizzyfan (talk) 04:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I already answered these same questions above, Bizzyfan. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:06, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Bizzyfan. When I'm citing something from ProQuest, I don't include the full URL in the address field of the citation template, because I think it includes some things specific to the library you access ProQuest via, so it's not much use to anyone without a login for that library. Instead, I use Template:ProQuest, which allows for linking just using the document's ProQuest ID. I use that template after a citation template, which I fill in as if it's for an offline newspaper source. Here's a recent example: <ref>{{cite news|title=Campuses ban alleged church cult|first=Michael|last=Paulson|work=Boston Globe|date=23 February 2001|page=B1}} {{ProQuest|405379940}}.</ref> That will appear as: Paulson, Michael (23 February 2001). "Campuses ban alleged church cult". Boston Globe. p. B1. ProQuest 405379940. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:41, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Proquest links are not required, but they are nice to have. Without them, anyone verifying the info will need to either search on Proquest themselves or find a copy through a library. I think if you've gone through all the hard work of locating the Proquest links, you might as well put them in the draft, as you have with the first one (Woodward's obituary in The Province newspaper). Formatting them to look nice is something you can gradually pick up later. The important thing is that the source is cited in the correct place and that the citation contains all the important bibliographic info (title, author, date, newspaper name, etc.). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

How do make an article that's "intended as humor"?

Do I have to meet criteria or something like that?

What tags do I have to add so that the "this is humor" warning appears? Lucasfergui1024 (talk) 19:57, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

@Lucasfergui1024, we don't allow articles intended as humor. You might find something of use at Wikipedia:Department of Fun. There is stuff like The Wrong Version (not actually on WP) and Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars (not an article). You might find some inspiration at Category:Wikipedia humor. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

@Lucasfergui1024 You might have more luck at Uncyclopedia. Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

How to find relevant articles to contribute to

Hello everyone,

I recently decided to start contributing to Wikipedia.

After creating my account and reading some of the policies and guidelines, I feel like I don't have a clear sense of what to do next.

I would like to begin by editing or improving existing articles, but I'm unsure which ones to focus on.

I have technical knowledge in software coding, architecture and security, as well as gaming history (especially related to Nintendo games and consoles).

I’ve occasionally come across articles with a "Needs improvement" banner when searching for information on Wikipedia before.

Where can I find articles related to these topics that need improvement? Additionally, if there's an existing "kickstart" page with useful information for newcomers like me, a link to that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance! JosepSendra (talk) 10:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

JosepSendra, a large percentage of English-language Wikipedia's articles are defective. They lack sufficient references, they misrepresent what their references say, they exaggerate, they're sycophantic, they're based on junk sources, they're phrased obscurely, etc. Don't you notice this kind of thing when, as an encyclopedia user rather than editor, you read an article? If you do, then start by fixing what you notice. -- Hoary (talk) 10:48, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Would Automated guided vehicle be a good example of this? I recently did research on AGVs and found out someone had added hyperlinks to what seems to be a personal page about robotics in the latest edit (10 sept).

To me, these hyperlinks seemed like some kind of promotion, since they included heavy advertisement and paid products, and didn't really contribute to the content of the article.

Should I undo the edit? JosepSendra (talk) 11:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

@JosepSendra:. Absolutely: and probably tell that editor via their Talk Page that external links should hardly ever be in the body text of articles (see WP:EL) and certainly not spammy ones like those. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

JosepSendra, putting aside the matter of spam links, there's no reference provided for the sections "Wired", "Guide tape", and "Laser target navigation" -- and probably more, but I stopped looking. So for all we know their content could have come from anywhere: a conscientiously edited journal, or The Beano. -- Hoary (talk) 21:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I just edited these to correct them and add references. I will try to look into the Dorothy Circus Gallery one later, but I am no expert in art. JosepSendra (talk) 08:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@JosepSendra: Hello! There are many many things to do here. See for example the Wikipedia:Task Center and Wikipedia:Maintenance. See also Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories sorted by month. Polygnotus (talk) 10:50, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Very useful links, thank you! JosepSendra (talk) 11:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

If you know which topics you are interested in (e.g. you mention Nintendo) you can get a listing of articles needing clean-up using this source called bambots. There is also the newcomer homepage tab you should see when you look at your own userpage (currently a redlink). This will suggest simple edits to get you started. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:58, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Bambots has been helpful to find some projects I could contribute to. Thank you! JosepSendra (talk) 09:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

JosepSendra, I've just now come across the article Dorothy Circus Gallery. It has no warning templates on it and therefore doesn't appear in any list of articles needing attention. It does have some references and (though I couldn't be bothered to read much of it) it doesn't seem to have spelling mistakes. But it's very poor. (Can you count the ways?) And it's not exceptional. -- Hoary (talk) 11:27, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

You may have come across this as you went through some of the policies and guidelines, but I always like to point out WP:RSPS, a list of sources commonly asked about in terms of reliability. It's just for getting an idea of what kinds of sources Wikipedia is aiming for and under which contexts. Since you mention Nintendo, the Video Games WikiProject is fairly active. They have a project talk page for questions and their own sources list (tailored more to video game-related topics). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Biography page

Hello there, I have a question about notability of Andrea Guerrini, he is an Italian poet and my teacher wants to create a Wikipedia page for him. so I was doing some research and found out that it is not that easy, there are so many rules as well. could anyone help me to check if it is possible to create a page and how can I verify notability of this poet thank you everyone Nurmukhammed2997 (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Nurmukhammed2997 Welcome to the Teahouse. There doesn't appear to be an article about this Italian poet on Italian Wikipedia. One wonders why not? The starting point for any article is not to worry about all our instructions and rules, but to concern yourself solely with "Notability". Without a topic meeting our criteria for notability, there can never be an article here about it. In essence, we need evidence that any topic you want to see an article about has been taken notice of by the world at large. That means we expect you to find books, magazine or mainstream news articles - or perhaps even research journals - about that topic and to base a draft article on them (not on your personal knowledge). If it's a person, not a thing, then we need evidence of independent, in-depth sources that have written about that person. We ignore their own writings, musing or personal websites and social media streams, however. It's what others have said about them that matters.

These sources do not need to be online; they can be properly paper published books or journals of any age that are theoretically available (on request) at any library, anywhere in the world. At a very quick check, there's nothing online that I could find about this person. So could I put the question back to you and ask what sources do you already have that show Andrea Guerrini meets our notability criteria? These can be found at HERE or HERE.

Having established that they might be notable, the next step is to learn the basics of editing. (Article creation is hard for all of us; even moreso for a brand new inexperienced editor.) It's well worth gaining experience by making simple edits to understand the key requirements. Think of it like making the very first steps of driving in a car in a quiet car park, compared to roaring up the motorway at high speed on your very first day behind the wheel).

You may find advice at Help:Your first article and Help:Getting started well worth reading through. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 09:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of to add to Nick's excellent answer is that non-English sources are fine, but like he said, you need to master the art of citing them correctly in the WP environment. I searched, but I didn't come up with anything that seemed on-topic, if you have any links/sources, you can mention them so we can take a look. Sadly, archive.org is down atm, that is sometimes helpful. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

When I search about him on google italy I get this article from local newspaper

https://www.genova24.it/evento/genova-gli-ex-allievi-del-mazzini-raccontano-adriano-guerrini-linsegnante-il-poeta-il-letterato/#:~:text=Adriano%20Guerrini%20fu%20docente%20di,di%20via%20Reti%20a%20Sampierdarena.

I get links on bookshop websites for his books

https://www.libroco.it/dl/Adriano-Guerrini/De-Ferrari-Editore/9788855036276/Raccolta-di-poesie-Di-noi-qualcuno-un-giorno-un-grande-mito-narrera/cw830874033720115.html

Another media platform of another Italian city talk about him

https://alessandria.today/2023/04/16/la-poesia-di-adriano-guerrini/

There are couple of books on amazon

he received an award along with his colleague

https://www.culturaveneto.it/it/beni-culturali/libri/premio-colli-euganei-1960-andrea-zanzotto-adriano-guerrini Nurmukhammed2997 (talk) 09:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Nurmukhammed2997@Nick Moyes I'll give you my view.

• genova24: This has some good info, but it seems (I'm using google translate) to be a post/ad by the event-holder, his school I think, so for WP:N purposes, I don't think this counts as independent. The info can at least to some extent be used in a potential article, though.
• libroco.it: Confirms that someone is selling his books, but it doesn't help.
• alessandria.today: WP:BLOG.
• culturaveneto.it: I don't know anything about this award

I think it's quite possible there are useful sources around, but they are probably in WP:PAYWALLED sources like digitized newspaper collections (or the actual papers, of course), academic article collections and the like. These are harder to get at and it takes some work and passion to do it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:06, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Again, I don't know Italian, but this book [1] might be about him. Perhaps [2] has something too. If so, that is the kind of stuff you want. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I also have this research that my teacher did

. Stefano Verdino, Adriano Guerrini, in La poesia in Liguria, a cura di Id., Forum/Quinta Generazione, Forlì 1986, pp. 148-152.

Francesco De Nicola, Introduzione a Guerrini, Poesie (1941-1986), 1996, pp.

XIII-XXII.

• Davide Puccini, Adriano Guerrini saggista: fra poetica, polemica e didattica,

«Resine», n.s, XXII, 85, 3° trimestre 2000, pp. [551-60.

• Stefano Verdino, La stagione del "Diogene", in Coerenza e dispersione. Contributi per Gian Luigi Falabrino, a cura di Franca Guelfi, Viennepierre, Milano 2000, pp.

23-45.

• Stefano Giovannuzzi, I "penultimi" di Guerrini, introduzione a Guerrini, Jon il

Groenlandese (2016), pp. 7-19.

• Adriano Guerrini, in Dodici poeti liguri (1960-2020), a cura di Anna Sansa, II

Canneto, Genova 2021, pp. 71-89.

could this be useful? Nurmukhammed2997 (talk) 10:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @Nurmukhammed2997: yes, it is likely that some of these will be useful. But it will be necessary to see them to determine:

1. Are they reliable? This is mostly a matter of who published them. A book published by a well-known publisher, yes. A book published by its author or by a vanity press, no. Some if not all of those are surely reliable. A book published by a gallery who have exhibited the artist may be reliable but not independent (see the next point).
2. Are they independent? This depends on who wrote and edited them, and possibly who commissioned them. Also if the material is mostly an interview (so the artist's words, not an independent write), then no. (This is common in articles: it is less likely in books, but possible).
3. Do they contain significant coverage of the artist? Several of those you have cited almost certainly do; but it is possible, for example that they contain much about his works, but little about him.

ColinFine (talk) 11:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Is it possible to get help in this ?

Could anyone indicate someone who can rewrite about this poet and do a check up if he would pass a notability check? Nurmukhammed2997 (talk) 13:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Nurmukhammed2997 I'm afraid that is as far as the Teahouse can go in guiding new users (unless an individual just happens to read this and they independently decide they want to look into it further).

It is now up to you to find, research and assess sources for yourself, having digested the above advice on Notability and coming to a decision. Few of us speak Italian to be able to assess those sources for you. You would then have to create a draft and submit it for review. But we do have a wizard to help with that step, which you can find at the Articles for Creation page HERE. We do not object to foreign language sources being used, you'll be pleased to know.

But if this is an Italian poet, why not first look to Italian Wikipedia to create an article about him? They probably have less stringent notability criteria than we do, and it would be more relevant to Italian speakers?

But either way, do gain some experience first in editing and improving existing articles. Give it some months to learn the basics before embarking on the hardest tasks anyone can perform here - creating a new article from scratch - which is especially challenging for brand new users. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

No response to requested page edits

Hi there,

I'm a newbie to the world of Wikipedia editing and (perhaps unsurprisingly) the editing police very quickly came down on me like a tonne of bricks because in deemed to have a conflict of interest in terms of the page I've been trying to edit.

First off, I have no issue with the COI allegation. The page I am seeking changes to is that of Anne Ferguson-Smith. Anne is the Executive Chair at the Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC)

I am the Communications Lead for BBSRC and directly work with Anne - I now understand that my professional relationship with Anne is the root cause of the COI.

Anne has personally asked me to make some urgent changes to her Wiki page because some of the content is factually incorrect. As the content in question relates to her personal life she quite rightly wants it to be amended as a matter of urgency.

Which leads to my question to you wonderful people at the Teahouse.

As per the orders of the editing police, I have now drafted my proposed changes using the edit COI template (as directed) and posted them in Anne's talk page. I have added the specific editor who keeps reversing my edits with a request for them to please urgently review my requested changes independently (again at their request).

That was nearly five days ago now and all I've received in response is silence. The editor in question was very quick off the mark to revert my edits when I made them in good faith, but isn't quite as eager when it comes to reviewing my draft changes as directed.

As well as linking in the editor in question to my change request on Anne's talk page, I've also messaged the user direct to flag it. But again, all I'm getting in response is deafening silence.

Am I doing something wrong Teahouse? I know I made a mistake, but I've rectified it and followed due process. All I want to do is ensure Anne's information is accurate, but right now it isnt and I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

Any guidance you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all in advance,

MikeSierra414 (talk) 14:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Please do not refer to fellow editors as "editing police", it's derogatory. You ought to read Wikipedia:Ownership of content and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Anne Ferguson-Smith does not own her article. We are not obliged to remove anything simply because someone asked us to. You will have to provide adequate proof that the information in the article is incorrect. Also, it is important to note that other editors are volunteers, so they might not have had a chance to review your draft. Industrial Insect (talk) 14:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

MikeSierra414 your edit request was incorrectly formatted so nobody would have been alereted to it, you included "no-wiki" code. I have added some of the changes with references. I see no reason to remove the spouse details, Wikipedia is not censored and the marriage is sourced. Theroadislong (talk) 15:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Theroadislong. I'll reply to your specific comments in the talk page as I have re-drafted the content with reliable sources and I certainly don't expect anyone to re-draft the content for me! I just need to clarify the changes (ie change X to y as you advise) to make the request clearer.

Re: spouse details, Anne has very recently gone through a divorce, so the information is no longer accurate. The divorce just isn't common knowledge because Anne tends to keep her private life private. I'll have to think through sourcing that one.

Thanks again,

MikeSierra414 (talk) 19:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

The content is accurate in that she married Mark Gregory McHarg in 1988, you are free to add that she was divorced if you supply a reliable reference but the sourced content is unlikely to be removed. Theroadislong (talk) 21:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Industrial Insect sincere apologies. My intention wasn't to cause offence. As someone in the communications world I am sometimes playfully referred to as the 'grammar police'. I take it in light hearted jest, which is how it was intended. But I realise not everyone may feel that way. But for clarity, I was simply acknowledging that the editors in question were upholding their standards re: COI. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for the changes, Anne isn't so arrogant as to demand that content be removed 'just because'. She is requesting the information be removed because she is now divorced and the information is therefore factually incorrect.

Best wishes,

MikeSierra414 (talk) 20:06, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@MikeSierra414: You may find WP:About you and our FAQ for article subjects useful. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

MikeSierra414 As Theroadislong notes, it is factually correct to say that she got married in 1988. That on its face doesn't necessarily mean she is married today. We can change it to say she's divorced, but we need something to cite. Where I live divorces are public record and published in the newspaper- even something like that might work as a source. 331dot (talk) 21:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Theroadislong, @331dot, @Pigsonthewing and @Industrial Insect thank you all for your help and guidance. It's much appreciated. I'll relay the information back and look into reliable sources that reflect the current relationship status.

MikeSierra414 (talk) 22:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to apologize, I took your comment the wrong way and reacted poorly. I hope you find the sources you are looking for. Industrial Insect (talk) 13:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Article approval

I have submitted an article Draft:William and Sarah Storum which was rejected. I made corrections and I have received a second rejection with no comments although I had made substantial changes that addressed the original rejection.

What is my next best step?

What am I missing? I publish academically reviewed articles and yet this article for an African American couple active in the Anti-slavery movement and significant for their participation in the Underground Railroad is not deemed worthy of Wikipedia? Johneverettjones (talk) 15:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Johneverettjones Hello and welcome. I fixed the link to your draft, the whole url is unnecessary. Your draft was declined, not rejected. Rejected has a specific meaning in the draft process, that a draft may not be resubmitted. Declined means that it may be resubmitted if you can address the concerns of the reviewers. Please see the comment left by the reviewer on the draft, it offers you a suggested pathway forward. 331dot (talk) 15:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @Johneverettjones. Nobody is saying that they are not "worthy of Wikipedia". Two reviewers are saying that, in their opinion, you have not yet provided adequate sources to establish that they meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability - which are not directly about importance, or fame, or "worthiness", but about whether there is adequate reliably published material about the subject to base an article on.

The comments near the top of the draft (below the "decline" boxes) explain what, in those reviewers' eyes, the problems are. It is a core principle of Wikipedia that everything in an article be verifiable from reliable published sources. See golden rule for more about the criteria that each source must pass in order to contribute to notability. ColinFine (talk) 16:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Mentioning the names and accomplishments of their children and grandchildren can be included but does not contribute to establishing notability for William and Susan. David notMD (talk) 10:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I will review the publications and make the revisions within what is published.

Ironically, a difficulty is that they were African American and therefore not included substantially within the publications about the abolition movement and the Underground railroad. See especially the Wikipedia entry for their white neighbor Cynthia Catlin Miller. Johneverettjones (talk) 13:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, history sometimes makes it difficult for us today to write about it- but verification is an important principle of Wikipedia. 331dot (talk) 13:54, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Revising article

Henry Simmonds is a Canadian architect of some note. He already has an entry based on his representing Canada in the Olympics as a sailor. I added some information on his architectural career but the info box still focused on this sailing. I'm not sure how best to revise it to be a more general biographical entry.

Henry Simmonds Jreiss17 (talk) 16:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

The article uses a "sailor Infobox" so there doesn't seem to be a paramter to include another occupation. Theroadislong (talk) 16:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Jreiss17, and thank you for wanting to add information. Thank you also for citing sources - which the existing article does not.

Infoboxes are not an essential part of an article (some editors actively dislike them): in any case, they are much less important than citations. What you're saying is like to "This jerry-built shack, which may fall down any minute, has a rather nice window, and I want to make the window nicer".

Having said that, we are all volunteers, so there's no requirement on you to do the more important (and possibly harder) work of sourcing the information already in there - any more than there is for me!

The existing infobox uses the template Template:Infobox sailor, so of course there is no provision in it for architecture. There is also a Template:infobox architect which could be added.

Since he was apparently both, probably the best solution is to use {{infobox person}} with the other two embedded: see WP:IEmbed for how to do this. ColinFine (talk) 17:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you all for your advice. I changed the infobox to person and embedded sailor successfully and did some other reorg.

I then tried to embed a second infobox architect but was not able to get it to display correctly. Left it without the embedded infobox architect which I'm fine with. Useful to learn about infoboxes, and embedding them (somewhat) and may use in other entries though I also have mixed feelings about them.

Entry is improved, if not perfect. Jreiss17 (talk) 17:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

That is indeed improved. All we need now is enough good citations to establish that Simmonds meets Wikipedia's criteria for WP:notability. ColinFine (talk) 19:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

What is the name of the article? I can work on the citations. Sheriff U3 talk 22:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Sheriff U3, I'll wager it's Henry Simmonds. Good luck digging around the newspaper archives. -- Hoary (talk) 23:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks I take a look. Sheriff U3 talk 15:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Considering title change for WP article

Due to an NPOV dispute, there is currently discussion for a title change on one of the articles I'm working on, per WP:RM. The change has some support by other editors but we don't know how to determine if it is a good/better fit. The subject is referred to by two phrases which essentially mean the same thing. What is the best process for determining commonality in usage. For example, do we simply use google to look at the number of search results for each and go with the one that has more results? Thanks for the help. Cheers DN (talk) 23:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I should also say, one of the more serious concerns I have here is WP:POVFORK. There is a subtopic on a separate article that currently shares the same name. One of the editors suggested a redirect, in addition to the title change, to the subtopic which is described differently than how it is in our article. I'm feeling apprehensive about it.DN (talk) 01:05, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

POV forking aside, I'll say that Google search hits don't really mean much, but Google ngram results do have some weight in showing how often certain phrases appear in published books. https://books.google.com/ngrams/ ~Anachronist (talk) 01:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

How to begin creating a portal

I wanted to know the process about creating a new portal. The portal already exists as an example on the Arabic Wikipedia and can be found on this link: [3]. Any advice is much appreciated! Surayeproject3 (talk) 02:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Have you digested Wikipedia:Portal, Surayeproject3? -- Hoary (talk) 04:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe I have in the past but I haven't taken a good look at it. I will later today but I'm hoping for more specific information on how to create a Wikipedia Portal if anyone or it can provide any. Surayeproject3 (talk) 18:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

President of the United States...

Hello! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember 4 years ago reading the article about President of the United States, and found it very clever to have a section which was essentially a gallery of the living former presidents- Carter, Bush, Clinton, Obama and Trump. I since could not find this anywhere. Did it exist? If it did, why was it removed? Thanks! Mr. NeutroPositive (talk) 03:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mr. NeutroPositive There is a featured article at list of presidents of the United States which may be what you are remembering. It has all the presidents, not just the living ones. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:25, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mr. NeutroPositive: You are right. It was removed in 2022 with edit summary: "This fits just fine into the preceding subsection. The portraits are superfluous; all these men are pictured together at the top of the section."[4] The last version is here. It's a fairly large article at 160 kB and content is often removed from articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Published article hasn’t been reviewed

Hello! I published this article Croisière des Sables Expeditions on the 4th of October, and it hasn’t been reviewed or seen by any other editor yet. Also, I don’t know which Wikipedia project this can fall under. Can someone help? Thanks! Bollardant (talk) 06:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Bollardant. Newly created Wikipedia articles go into a queue of new unreviewed articles. It can take a month or so for it to be reviewed. The only advice we can give you is just to be patient. Hope that helps. Softlavender (talk) 06:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the swift response. I will keep that in account. Bollardant (talk) 06:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

[Edit conflicts] Hello, Bollardant. When you create an article directly (rather than through the Wikipedia:Articles for creation process), it is not automatically reviewed. The New pages patrol will try to get to it, but their numbers are limited (remember, everything on Wikipedia is done by unpaid volunteers like both of us).

If the NPP do review it, and approve it, they will make it visible to search engine web crawlers. If they don't, this latter will happen automatically after 90 days. It is likely that there are many articles amongst Wikipedia's ~6.9 million that have never been reviewed.

You can ask for a 'peer review' of the article at Wikipedia:Peer review. Hope this helps. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 06:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I may potentially consider asking for a peer review. Bollardant (talk) 07:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Draft Submitted, Unpublished – Awaiting Review

I’ve submitted a Wikipedia article Pride of KP Awards that’s awaiting review, and I’m looking for feedback to improve it. Any suggestions on structure, clarity, and adherence to Wikipedia's guidelines would be appreciated. I'm open to edits to ensure it's well-sourced, neutral, and ready for publication. Namra Tariq (talk) 07:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Namra Tariq The draft has been reviewed today and declined, with the reasons for that explained by the reviewer. One of the problems is that sources include press releases from the organisation giving the awards. What is needed to show that these awards are wikinotable are sources which are simultaneously reliable, independent of the awarding body and have significant coverage of it. You can try to improve the draft if you can find such sources but, if not, you will have to give up. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate the guidance, as I'm still familiarizing myself with the notability requirements. Following your suggestion, I’ve found a few reputable, independent media sources that provide significant coverage of the event and the awards:

میٹرکس پاکستان (humnews.pk)

https://mashriqtv.pk/latest/372771/

خیبر پختونخوا کے 12 نمایاں افراد کو پرائڈ آف کے پی ایوارڈز میں اعزاز دیا جائے گا (humnews.pk)

I believe these addresses the notability concerns and would be happy to revise the draft accordingly. Please let me know if this is acceptable. Namra Tariq (talk) 11:47, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Namra Tariq You can certainly continue to revise your draft. I have no idea whether these sources are considered reliable: they have not been discussed in the archive of the relevant page at WP:RSPS. You can ask about reliability of sources at the helpdesk for that, which is WP:RSN. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Namra Tariq The draft has been Declined for weakness and lack of independence of references. The draft says annual, but it appears this is the first year the awards exist. Listing recipients does not contribute to establishing notability (none of them are subjects of Wikipedia articles), so all that should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by David notMD (talk • contribs) 10:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome! Your article is not supported by reliable sources, and is written in a promotional tone, and has been declined. See NPOV and referencing for beginners for more info. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 10:55, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Re: The Kalergi Plan page

This page needs an edit. It claims, the Kalergi Plan, is a 'right of centre' conspiracy. But whom, is credited, with 'debunking' this 'far-right' conspiracy theory? Only, the 'far-left' 'Southern Law Poverty Center.' Whom, are as partisan, on the left, as can be. THEY can NEVER be the 'arbitors' of what is considered, a 'far right' conspiracy theory. They, have 'skin' in the game. I would like this noted and/or this status us 'debunked' taken down. Not doing so, may look partisan. Not doing so, WILL appear to show, bias. RedBanana23 (talk) 07:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Kalergi Plan   Maproom (talk) 07:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, RedBanana23, the well-established consensus among editors is that the SPLC is a reliable source regarding extremist groups. It is an advocacy group with biases, so its assessments should be attributed to the SPLC rather than stated in Wikipedia's voice. You can find out more at WP:SPLC. You are, of course, free to try to challenge this consensus, but until it changes, you must respect it. Also worth noting is that the article has 12 references, only one of which is to the SPLC. Cullen328 (talk) 07:56, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

It is well known, to be a leftist group. Why should they, be the arbiters of what is and is not, a 'conspiracy.' I disagree strongly. This MUST surely mean, that most of these 'editors' ARE actually, lefties. Are you 'admitting' to a left-wing consensus, being in operation, here?? Perhaps the political persuasion, of these contributors, should be gathered, as the norm? 2A02:C7E:62ED:2300:980B:CA5F:E61E:F3FD (talk) 11:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I made page about public figure, why you delete it?

I made page about public figure, why you delete it? What should I do to make my page is working and public? Hanichaa (talk) 08:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hanichaa, if you're asking about Draft:Gustigina, its most obvious problem is that it's not written in English. This is English-language Wikipedia, and only accepts English-language articles. Perhaps you could submit it to id.wikipedia.org (maybe I'm wrong about the language). Maproom (talk) 08:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Hanichaa If you are talking about Gusti Gina, it's there at Indonesian Wikipedia. If you mean Draft:Gustigina, you need to fix the referencing and remove the WP:EL from the article text. I have no idea if this article meets the demands of WP:N or not. And it's not in English, the language of this website. If you mean something else, we need more info. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hanichaa, as "Hanichaa", you have never edited, let alone "made", any article in English-language Wikipedia that was subsequently deleted. You ask what you should do. Answer: Make constructive edits to existing articles. When you've had quite a lot of practice doing that, then you can think of creating new articles. -- Hoary (talk) 11:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Miss Mega Bintang Indonesia 2024 who translated into a English!

Hello All Fans I just added Sources per WP:SOURCES, also the contestants lists who was competed, results in a Infobox. Mostly Declined the resumbit, can someone move the Draft into a Article. 77.77.218.177 (talk) 10:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

If you have made changes since it was declined, you need to resubmit it. 331dot (talk) 10:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

IP editor. It was declined again today because you had re-submitted it without making changes relevant to the issues about sourcing/notability and had also removed the prior decline notice. Such gaming of the system is unlikely to succeed. Please attend to the issues raised by User:Bonadea. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:53, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Miss Kitty

Maybe it's my age, but I was surprised to find that when typing in the name "Miss Kitty" into the search bar, it took me to this page: The Kat. I'm not diminishing this BLP, but knowing only one "Miss Kitty" from Gunsmoke, I'm wondering why she gets the direct link over the others on the disambiguation page: Miss Kitty (disambiguation)? Considering her real name, versus her stage name; which is actually "The Kat". When one types in "Miss Kitty" into Google Search, Gunsmoke is most relevant, with An American Tail: Fievel Goes West and others. But not the wrestler. At the very least, shouldn't the disambiguation page come up first, if Gunsmoke is not going to be the direct link? (I'm sure there's been a discussion already that I've missed) Maineartists (talk) 13:37, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Mainartists. The determination of the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is a matter of editorial discretion. If you want to argue that there is a better choice in this case, I suggest doing so at Talk:Miss Kitty (disambiguation). ColinFine (talk) 13:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Out of curiosity: 162 etc., would you happen to remember if there was a discussion for a primary topic takeover of Miss Kitty three years ago (move log entry)? I didn't find anything in the edit summaries of related edits on the redirect or the dab. Talk:The Kat § Requested move 2 November 2021 does not mention the dab at all, so it may have been a WP:BOLDMOVE situation. Probably still needs a formal WP:RM if contested, but was just curious. Please feel free to correct me. Thank you, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 14:37, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Rotideypoc41352 Quick question: which page receives the RM? It's a bit confusing since "The Kat" has so many title links: The Kat, Stacy Carter, Miss Kitty, etc. Would the RM go on the Miss Kitty (disambiguation) page with "Miss Kitty"? Isn't the re-direct page that needs the RM? Not the actual pages in question? This is where I get a bit foggy. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 17:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

You would put the request to rename the dab "Miss Kitty" on Talk:Miss Kitty (disambiguation). If your request succeeds, the dab would be moved to "Miss Kitty" over the existing redirect. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:26, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 19:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Rotideypoc41352 I was thinking the same thing: WP:BOLDMOVE; and that, overall, the topic does not get enough traffic to have been noticed. That, ColinFine, is why I brought it here first. I understand WP:PRIMARYTOPIC all too well (see: Talk:Saddle tramp). Discussion at Talk:Miss Kitty (disambiguation) is practically non-existent. Maineartists (talk) 15:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I think that may have indeed been a bold move, based on the fact that Stacy Carter has a full article of her own (a good article, at that), and the others are only mentions. No reason why it can't go to RM if anybody believes this is a NOPRIMARY situation. 162 etc. (talk) 15:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

"Proving a negative" and correcting potential misinfo in an article

I've been trying to improve the MiG-25 article for some time. There's an entire section about "western intelligence" that claims the USAF misunderstood the role/capabilities of the MiG-25, and created the F-15 and its capabilities as a direct response/overreaction. This is a very common claim on the internet, which has become wide spread in recent years - something I assume can only be attributed to Wikipedia.

I have done a fair amount of research into primary source DoD/CIA/USAF documents and read several books on the topic, including the citation in the article, and none of them seem to agree. But the difficulty here is in proving that something "didn't" happen - that the USAF didn't develop the F-15 as a direct response, and that it didn't misunderstand the MiG-25. The official, declassified USAF history makes no direct mention I've seen of the Foxbat in the relevant sections to its development - it names the Su-7 and Su-15.

Insofar as I interpreted the actual citation and the book itself, I did not read it as agreeing with the claim in the article, but maybe I'm wrong about that. I don't think the book is (legally) available online, but I included a quotation of the relevant page in the talk section.

I don't know how to go about actually arguing this point or getting it changed. Hopefully all this makes sense to someone - please help me. Rsemmes92 (talk) 17:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Rsemmes92. I don't know anything about the subject, and I haven't looked at the article; but it seems to me that unless a reliable source says that "the USAF misunderstood the role/capabilities of the MiG-25, and created the F-15 and its capabilities as a direct response/overreaction", a Wikipedia article should not make that claim. It's not about proving a negative, it's about whether a suggestion of motive is supported or not. ColinFine (talk) 19:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Rsemmes92 Adding to ColinFine's response: you have a number of options to address this.

• One might be to add a {{Template:cn}} at the end of the statement you are concerned about. It will appear like this .
• Alternatively, you could add {{dubious}}, which appears like this . You are then expected to go to the talk page and raise your concerns and propose the sentence's removal and justify why. A discussion should then ensue in order to reach a consensus. That can take at least a week -possibly a lot longer for rarely visited pages.
• You could simply WP:BEBOLD and delete the unsupported statement with a clear edit summary explaining your rationale. But I suspect if there is a general assumption that this is a valid statement, you might be better off leaving it to a well-worked through discussion to gain consensus amongst other editors first. If you do mention books that you've read on the topic, don't forget to cite them all in that discussion so as to help other editors appreciate what checking you have already done. If you've not read the right books, then you will have potentially undermined your argument. You can deploy Template:Reflist-talk to ensure that any inline citations you add stay within that particular thread , and don't forever stay at the bottom of the talk page, even after subsequent posts are added.

The choice really is yours, and I hope this helps you a bit. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

You can try notifying the Military History WikiProject at the project talk page and ask them to comment under the relevant section of the article talk page. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 21:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Why did you delete my page,it's a new thing?

i should have quit Jason pagan jr (talk) 18:28, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Creating an article requires a lot of work to understand exactly what kind of sources you need. It can be rough, so if you need a break, taking one is a good idea. You can come back to Draft:The International Phonics Script (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) whenever you are ready. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:37, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Page:the International Phonetic Script

status:deleted by you're member. Jason pagan jr (talk) 18:37, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Jason pagan jr, nothing has ever been deleted that you, while logged in as Jason pagan jr, have written for English-language Wikipedia. Your draft was rightly declined. -- Hoary (talk) 21:05, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

clearification regarding the definition of "userspace ("related content")" meaning in ARBECR?

Hello, I am trying to understand what is "exception of user space", in the context of ARBECR.

4) For the purposes of editing restrictions in the ARBPIA topic area, the "area of conflict" shall be defined as encompassing

1. the entire set of articles whose topic relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted ("primary articles"), and
2. edits relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict, to pages and discussions in all namespaces with the exception of userspace ("related content")

Passed 6 to 0 at 05:06, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

I thought it meant "page names that start with "User:", followed by your user name, followed by a slash (/), are in your user space." because that is the definition I have found in Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space#Your_user_space

But I was warned and Informed by @User:331dot that my interpretation of the rule is incorrect, and in fact are no places in Wikipedia that are exempt from this rule. I was wondering what is the correct interpretation what what is exactly exempt.

thanks in advance for every answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict#Definition_of_the_%22area_of_conflict%22 109.64.53.152 (talk) 18:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

You are on the brink of being blocked because you persist in attempts to edit regarding the Israel/Arab conflict. You have no userspace because you do not have a Wikipedia account. I advise you in the strongest possible way to drop this subject. Cullen328 (talk) 19:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

ok, so if I have understood it correctly, the meaning is for editor own user page

for example for that would be:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:109.64.53.152/example-user-page

am I correct?

if so, I whould think there are better way to convay this massage for example writing "own user pages" or "editor can only write on its own user pages" or something similar

as for your threats they have been taken by me and this will be my last comment in the subject, from now on no more trying to understand policy, only focus on becoming ECR Approved so I could Voice my opinion in that subject 109.64.53.152 (talk) 19:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Gaming the system merely to obtain ECR is not looked upon well in contentious topics areas. If you do so just to post your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, you will likely be quickly sanctioned. 331dot (talk) 19:32, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Questions regarding copyright and copyediting

Hello, I am a new wikipedia editor. I asked my mentor these questions, but I think he may not be available right now. (If you're curious, his user is Cocobb8) I was hoping to come here for a quicker response. Here's my first question: I wanna add company logos to articles that lack it, but I am not sure if I will get in trouble for copyright, am I able to add them? And the second question: I saw an article today that had grammar that wasn't so good. I have an app called Grammarly that fixes grammar for you. I was curious if I am allowed to use this for copyediting. Thank you! Liam9287 (talk) 19:25, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Liam9287: Copyrighted logos may be used for illustration at the relevant article. For the full policy and guideline, see Wikipedia:Non-free content. In short, use a low resolution image and upload it here at the Enlish Wikipedia (not Wikimedia Commons). The Wikipedia:File upload wizard will walk you through how to do it. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 19:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thank you, I will try this. Are you able to answer the second question? Liam9287 (talk) 19:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

There is no problem with using a computer program for spelling and grammar, but you are still responsible for the result, so before publishing you should check that the output makes sense and the meaning has not been changed. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thank you a lot! Liam9287 (talk) 20:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Liam9287 To exapnd on this, the thing you'll really want to watch for with automated grammar checkers is WP:ENGVAR. Basically, there's a lot of dialects of English- American, Australian, British, Indian, ect - and these can all have their own grammar/spelling rules. Automated grammar checkers will normally mark these alternate spellings and so on as "incorrect", and try to fix them. For example, my built-in spellcheck hates the fact I spell "favourite" with a "u", and it will try and correct me. If I was working on the article about US president Joe Biden, then I'd want it to correct me! If I was working on the article about King Charles III, then I would want to keep the British spelling. This is because on Wikipedia, we have a rule saying that if the subject of an article is closely connected to one particlar variety of English, or a country that uses that variety, we will also use that variety. On popular articles, you can normally find a banner telling you which variety of English to use on the talk page. On less popular articles, you go for whichever variety is currently present in the article.GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 20:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes sense @GreenLipstickLesbian, I will definitely be on the lookout for this. Here's an example of what Grammarly does, let me know if it's good! https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ksenia_Schnaider&diff=1251914345&oldid=1197442648 Liam9287 (talk) 20:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

At a glance, those seem to be improvements, but I think I can see a few errors it missed. On that article, I'd be more worried about the WP:PROMOTIONAL tone, but of course if you just want to improve grammar, that's completely fine too. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 21:23, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Liam9287. I agree with Maddy from Celeste, but there is another point to make: systems like Grammarly sometimes have rules in them that are not generally agreed, and so reject text that many people find perfectly fine. If you are making several edits to an article including some grammar fixes that aren't necessary, then I don't think anybody will object; but if the make a lot of edits where the only chanbge is to fix something that many people don't think is broken, then that may be seen as disruptive. ColinFine (talk) 20:05, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Good point! In particular, you should be careful not to introduce edits that change between different dialects of English without a good reason. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, okay, I will be on the lookout if it does that, thanks again! Liam9287 (talk) 20:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe Grammarly's grammar fixing is based on American English, which I think is the predominant accent of English in Wikipedia Liam9287 (talk) 20:11, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

That may be true, @Liam9287, but is not relevant to Maddy's point. See WP:ENGVAR. ColinFine (talk) 21:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Liam9287, American English is not an "accent", it is a national variation of the English language. Accents refer to spoken English and this is a discussion about written English. The accent of a less educated person from the Bronx is dramatically different from the accent of a less educated person from Alabama or San Francisco's Chinatown. The same is true of various communities in the United Kingdom and other countries. But we write the encyclopedia in an educated tone and register. Cullen328 (talk) 01:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I think I worded it wrong. Sorry about that. But yes, I understand the regional variants of English. When I use my tool I make sure not to interfere with words that are just words with a different spelling (e.g favourite, opposed to favorite) or any other different spelling. Liam9287 (talk) 18:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

adding to Cuban artists list.

Hugo Moro (1954-), assemblage, born in Havana Hugo Moro (talk) 19:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hugo Moro You appear to be trying to promote yourself, which is not the purpose of Wikipedia. In general, people included in lists should already have their own article on the English Wikipedia, which you don't have - Arjayay (talk) 19:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Hugo Moro, and welcome to the Teahouse. Lists in Wikipedia are not lists of people (or places, or any other subjects): they are lists of Wikipedia articles.

If you meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability then somebody could write an article about you, and then that article could be added to the list. But please do not try and write an article about yourself: autobiography is strongly discouraged.

Note also that an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. ColinFine (talk) 20:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

ClueBot

How long does it take for ClueBot to start archiving things on my talk page? RedactedHumanoid (talk) 20:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, RedactedHumanoid. In your case, the answer looks to be 2160 hours (= 90 days) as you've used the default 'age' setting, and will keep a minimum of 5 threads there. But you can change it if you wish. It's unwise to make the bot clear out your talk page too frequently, or to remove all the threads, as it makes others have to work heard to delve into your archives unnecessarily if they need to check on past interactions. For more details, see the documentation at User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. RedactedHumanoid (talk) 22:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@RedactedHumanoid: Furthermore, keeping at least four threads will ensure that a TOC (table of contents) will always be present. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Template:Poem_quote

Just wondering why this template page has a block of "Lorem ipsum" text visible above the "Template documentation" box.

—Protalina (talk) 20:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Protalina It is quite common for template pages to have a representative example of their output at the top of the template page. See {{Uw-test2}}, for example. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Michael D. Turnbull.

But isn't what's shown on this "Poem_quote" page a block-quote of prose, and not a poem-like text? As the blurb says, "A template for quoting poems, song lyrics, and other things that have frequent line breaks."

If the Lorem text was line-breaked after every, say, 10 words, it would be more representative of the template's output.

—Protalina (talk) 21:55, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Good point indeed! As it wouldn't impact any transclusion of the template, you can WP:BEBOLD and change it yourself, or ask on the talk page if anyone objects. Personally, I would support it, per the arguments above. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Protalina Yes, agreed. I hadn't though about that detail in your question. I would suggest using a real (old, non-copyright) verse. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:26, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good! Though this is beyond my wikitext skills at the moment – I keep getting "Template loop detected: Template:Poem quote" whatever tweak I try to the current Blockquote code at the top of the template page (including deleting it completely).

Anyway, the verse (& code) I've in mind is:

{{Poem quote

|text='Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;

All mimsy were the borogoves,

And the mome raths outgrabe.

|sign=Lewis Carroll

|source=Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There (1871)

|title="Jabberwocky"

}}

Perhaps a first step could be to simply remove what's now at the top, on the grounds that it's misleading. As the page is short, the reader's eye would quickly be drawn to the worked example.

—Protalina (talk) 08:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@JJMC89 Greetings! Looking at the history of the "Poem quote" page, I gather that you worked with former (?) user @Esszet to create the header Blockquote code back in 2015. Could you kindly help with the issue raised in this topic thread? Thanks a lot!

—Protalina (talk) 10:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Restored hijacked article. Are there next steps?

 Done

The article William Joseph Williams was hijacked in October of 2024. I have restored it back to the original subject of the Americna painter. The editors are new. Please advise the next steps for notifying this action to appropriate forum if there is one. Thanks. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 23:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Update, the article has been reverted back to the non-notable musician. Suggestions for stopping this, please. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 23:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Update. Brilliantly resolved by WereSpielChequers. All set over here. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:05, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I have split William Joseph Williams (singer) from William Joseph Williams the painter. Hopefully those who want to write about the singer will stick to their new page. ϢereSpielChequers 00:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

After cleaning up some nonsense from now-blocked long-term abuser, I've sent the article on the singer to AfD as an unsourced biography. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

List of antisemitic incidents in the United States & BLP

In regards to List of antisemitic incidents in the United States, is referring to/labeling an incident as antisemitic a WP:BLP violation if they weren't convicted of a hate crime? Furthermore, would it be a violation to refer to something as antisemitic if there were never charges or investigations into the incident as a hate crime, even if sources refer to the incident as antisemitic /potentially antisemitic?

I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask this question, but regardless, thank you in advance for your time. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 23:46, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:BLPN is the best place to ask. 27.134.49.176 (talk) 02:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Will do, thank you. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 02:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I would just add (from a UK perspective), that much speech and many acts were correctly identified as 'antisemitic' or indead 'antianything' long before the concept and designation of a 'hate crime' were introduced into legislations. Would you argue against something being referred to as a genocide if it occurred before the 1944 coining of that word and/or if no-person or regime had been officially convicted of it? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 08:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

creating and editing new pages

Hey you guys, i love the space here as a new wikipedian ha but im having problems with the page im working on so i can move to the next, i like to get the task done before i move on to the next, so if someone would please help i would be so thankful, thanks later. Wikimasterclassboss (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I understand that you want help. But what kind of help, and where you want it ... I haven't a clue. Please ask more concretely. 27.134.49.176 (talk) 02:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Looking at Draft:Lp certified, I don't think that subject is sufficiently notable for a wikipedia article - there doesn't really seem to be any third party coverage of this artist, meaning that there's nothing to form a wikipedia article out of. For now, I'd suggest making small improvements to existing articles before embarking on starting a new one. You could also benefit from reading Help:Referencing for beginners. -- D'n'B-t -- 03:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok thanks alot Wikimasterclassboss (talk) 03:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @Wikimasterclassboss, and welcome to the Teahouse and to Wikipedia. I remember when I was a new editor, nearly twenty years ago, I so much wanted to "make my mark" by creating a new article. But if you look at my contributions, you'll see I've made over 25 000 edits, but only ever created a dozen new articles. That's because I have realised that creating articles is not the only way - and often not the best way - to contribute to Wikipedia. We have six million articles, and most of them are not very good. Thousands and thousands of them are terrible - mostly made in the early days before we had the articles for creation process, and strict standards for notability.

It is understandable that people often want to work on new articles rather than put in the spade-work to go back and fix old broken ones. But (especially given how much harder it is than people realise to create an acceptable article) most new editors could be improving Wikipedia hundreds or thousands of times as much by improving (or, sometimes, nominating for deletion) existing articles than by trying to create new ones. ColinFine (talk) 15:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok your right thanks so much i appreciate your words Wikimasterclassboss (talk) 16:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Information relevant to several pages without being repetitive?

I wrote a detailed section on the herbicide trifluralin's mode of action and the mechanisms weeds resist this by. But there are several other chemically similar herbicides that share an identical mode of action, e.g. nitralin, profluralin, other dinitroanilines. What should I do on these articles? I don't want to repeat the same information that is relevant to all of them, I feel like it it's clunky to make a whole article on just this topic and link all of them to it. Is it okay to write "nitralin has blabla mode of action, see (link to trifluralin's more detailed description)"?

The detailed description is not too long at the moment, but I plan to add to it and I really don't like the idea of repeating it across seven or eight articles. RustyOldShip (talk) 03:30, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

P.S. Trifluralin is the most widely used so if any page has the detailed explanation that should be it. RustyOldShip (talk) 04:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

How about this? Some musings about your question: repeat across pages sounds like template. Some short summary and a link to detailed information sounds like Template:Main. Together that means that you need two pages! One in the template space that contains the heading "mechanism" (or however you want to call it),transcluding of template:main, (pointing to the article page or a section on an article page) and a summary of the content of the article page. Secondly an article page or at least a section in one of the article pages you want to modify. There you can talk about the mechanics all you want. Please check the notability of the article page in itself to avoid to have it deleted from some editors who don't grok the whole construct and see the article page on its own. Otherwise you need to use a section.

In all articles that use that mechanism you only need to include a call to your template. 176.0.161.37 (talk) 04:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

So I could use this to automatically copy & keep up to date the same section (defined in its own article as part of another -- say a section in "trifluralin"?) on all the relevant articles? RustyOldShip (talk) 06:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

That's the idea. 176.0.161.37 (talk) 11:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Information

Why are you deleting the National Historic District Mothers' Memorial Information adding to my page. I was the nominator for both the mothers' memorial and the Ashland Boys' Association for the nation recognition. I did this. The photos I have is my photos on other sites I uploaded. Please put this information back on the site with the national. Or guide me in the right direction. It's ashame I am trying to do right for my town and people are setting me back. AnthraciteCoalRegion (talk) 04:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

You should be asking the editor who reverted your addition, warned you for copyright violation, and tagged the page for a copyright revision deletion WP:REVDEL. That would be user:Randomstaplers. It appears that you made a verbatim copy from http://www.usgwarchives.net/pa/schuylkill/pdf/munsell.pdf , a page that is tagged "Printing this file by non-commercial individuals and libraries is encouraged, as long as all notices and submitter information is included. Any other use, including copying files to other sites requires permission from the submitters PRIOR to uploading to any other sites."

It's not clear to me that a transcription of an 1881 document is copyrightable, but certainly a lengthy, verbatim copy without attribution is not appropriate. Meters (talk) 04:16, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

It's irrelevant that you claim to have been the person who nominated sites for national recognition. As for the images, if they are your personal pictures then yes, you can release them for Wikipedia use, but you have to actually do so properly. There is at least one post about this on your talk page. Meters (talk) 04:22, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

In the future please link to a diff of the edit in question, or at least link to the page. I am assuming that the edit is [5] to Ashland, Pennsylvania. Meters (talk) 05:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

my page submission was declined

dear friends , I thought I submitted everything based on the guidance

here is the draft Draft:My Muses Card Shop

could you please tell me where did I go wrong ? Abhisiva (talk) 04:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

its not notable enough and it sounds like self promotion, especially that last paragraph 2001:8003:E49D:8501:88D7:AFE4:AF31:EC1F (talk) 05:05, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

quillbot also says its 100% ai generated. you cant exactly expect a AI generated article of a non notable card shop to be on wikipedia 2001:8003:E49D:8501:88D7:AFE4:AF31:EC1F (talk) 05:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Abhisiva, if you have questions about the draft review, it's best to go to the editor who reviewed the draft with any questions you have or go to the AFC Help page at AFC. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Non-notable local awards do not contribute to Wikipedia notability. David notMD (talk) 12:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Given your User name, I am guessing this is about your own business. You have a conflict of interest (WPLCOI). This does not preclude you creating and submitting a draft, but you need to declare your COI on your User page. David notMD (talk) 12:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

what happens if i delete the main page

do i become king of wikipedia 2001:8003:E49D:8501:88D7:AFE4:AF31:EC1F (talk) 04:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

2001:8003:E49D:8501:88D7:AFE4:AF31:EC1F (talk) 05:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Well, the question is moot because only administrators can delete pages, not regular editors or IP accounts. And there are safeguards in place to prevent any deletion of the main page as it happened, by accident, during the early years of Wikipedia. And Wikipedia has no monarchy, we are a collaborative editing project, sorry to disappoint you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

The main page has been deleted several times in the past, but none became Wikiroyalty. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 11:32, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

If you delete even the least part of content from the main page Zeus chains you to a mountainside and sets an eagle to eat your liver. David notMD (talk) 12:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

David notMD I hereby nominate this answer for the BEST Teahouse answer award of the year! Theroadislong (talk) 12:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Blushing David notMD (talk) 15:22, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Where are Wikiversity improvements discussed?

Hi. I have a suggestion about adding safe interactive JavaScript elements to Wikiversity to make lessons more engaging. Where is the best place to discuss something like this? Отец Никифор (talk) 09:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

If you do not get an answer here, try asking at wikiversity:Wikiversity:Colloquium. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 09:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Already did but have no useful answers. https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Colloquium#Interactive_elements Отец Никифор (talk) 10:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Отец Никифор: For technical help, try WP:VPT. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:43, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

What keywords to use to see if a topic is notable?

Hello! This may sound like a really dumb question but I'm trying to see if there are any reliable sources for a draft I plan on making for a page named "Computer cart." Along with this, I'm unsure of any other names that could be used and may exist. (and may require the creation of a redirect). This is my first time looking for reliable sources that meet WP:N.

Thank you, Teahousers. hi (talk) 12:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I've tried having a look for websites or articles that have information on that, but I'm not really seeing anything other than online shops. Procyon117 (talk) 12:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Please ignore, as I just noticed that the page Laptop charging trolley exists. hi (talk) 13:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Please find me pages that I can easily edit

PLeas "ziwoo027" (talk) 14:49, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@"ziwoo027": Welcome to the Teahouse. As you are a newcomer, you should have a homepage that gives you some suggested edits. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:03, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I added a standard Welcome item to your Talk page, which has useful Wikilinks. I also suggest you start with looking to improve existing articles about topics you know, so you can add content, at the same time adding valid references. Content without references will be reverted even if true. Practice getting references formatted correctly in your Sandbox before pasting into an article. David notMD (talk) 15:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

"ziwoo", take a look at the Wikipedia:Community portal. Cullen328 (talk) 17:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

idk

Hello I am Ziwoo027 From Wikipedia, I was wondering If I could create a page on the affects of AI. Where I could make a page created by chat GPT4. Please respond as soon as possible. "ziwoo027" (talk) 14:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello @"ziwoo027" and welcome to the Teahouse. We do not accept articles generated by AI. The policy is at Wikipedia:Large language models. You might be interested to read WP:Your first article for more guidance in creating new articles. Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Shantavira: WP:LLM is an essay, not a policy. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:03, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @"ziwoo027", and welcome. In addition to what Shantavira said, note that a Wikipedia article should be a summary of what reliable sources have said about a subject. Your proposed subject, even if it wasn't AI-generated, sounds more like an essay, which are not permitted as Wikipedia articles.

My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft. ColinFine (talk) 15:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Artificial intelligence. David notMD (talk) 15:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

The BFDI page issue: Why not put BFDI as a Section on Cary’s page?

The title says it all.

The essay I’m referring to. Xanzs (talk) 16:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, there is a Scholastic book of a BFDI character guide. Unbiased source as it’s done by Cary and Scholastic. Xanzs (talk) 16:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh wait. Wikipedia isn’t Fandom. Xanzs (talk) 16:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Xanzs Because Wikipedia:Why is BFDI not on Wikipedia? is an essay, and not an article with reliable sources. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

What? Xanzs (talk) 16:44, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but WP:NOTABILITY still applies here. It may be notable in the sense of popularity, but not in media coverage. hi (talk) 17:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Assuming the OP wants to put something about BFDI in another WP-article, the applicable policy would probably be WP:NPOV. NOTABILITY is about "should we have an article about X?" Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Carey doesn't have an article on WP, The Scale of the Universe has an article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

What is the difference between an Arbitration Enforcement and a Comunuty Sanctions Enforcement?

I'm curious to know what the difference between these two is 142.114.1.184 (talk) 17:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

What does low resolution mean?

Hi, so I asked a question a few days ago, about adding company logos to articles that lack them. The response mentioned low resolution image. However, I am confused what this means. My most prominent guess is that it means low quality, but that means you can't really see the logo, and it wouldn't look good in the article either. So I am not sure what exactly it means. Liam9287 (talk) 21:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)