User talk:Abutalub
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Removal of sourced content
[edit]- "(...) this section is about language's etimology, not the countries'"
And since when are they separable things when dealing with "language"?
I think you didn't even bother to read the sources which you just outrightly deleted;
"After the Russian Bolsheviks re-conquered the region in 1920-21, the newly formed Caucasian states (Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia) were annexed to the Soviet Union and renamed, on 12 March 1922, The Transcaucasian Soviet Socialist Republic. Later they were granted separate political status among the Soviet Republics. Then, by the order of Joseph Stalin, the name of the formal language of Azerbaijan was changed from Turkish to Azeri. Both the adoption of Azerbaijan for the region and Azeri for the language of the new entity are historically and linguistically questionable." -- "AZERBAIJAN". Encyclopaedia Iranica, Vol. III, Fasc. 2-3. 1987. pp. 205–257
Considering the article is called "Azerbaijani/Azeri language" and not "Congolese language", this material is of utmost importance to it. If the concerns are indeed about section placement (and I agree after having taken a second look), we can create a separate section for it somewhere else in the article. Having said that, such "argument" still doesn't justify the removal of 5kb of well-sourced text in the blink of an eye. You could've made a WP:BOLD move yourself and moved it further down. Or you could have left me a note. Takes zero effort really. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:26, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
- LouisAragon, I really didn't see the part you showed me. Sorry for that. But I think that the information you added is too detailed for article about language and I rewrote it. Such detailed information should be given in the articles such as History of Azerbaijan, Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijan. I rewrote the following one sentence from your first entire paragraph:
Prior to the establishment of the Pan-turkist Azerbaijan Democratic Republic who adopted the name of "Azerbaijan" for political reasons in 1918, it was exclusively used to identify the adjacent region of contemporary northwestern Iran.
Do you agree with it? I also removed parts about Transcaucasia, Armenia and Georgia. I don't get what is their connection to Azerbaijani language. If you wanted to add every states existed in Azerbaijan since 1918 why you didn't add Azerbaijan Republic created in 1991?--Abutalub (talk) 06:14, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
- The reason why I added some very minor info about the Georgian, Azerbaijani and Armenian SSR's, is because it was at about that precise moment in history (i.e., establishment of the three Transcaucasian SSR's), that Stalin ordered for changing the name of the Oghuz Turkic language of the area from "Turkish" into "Azerbaijani".
- In other words: it's also part of the "background" of the story. Its even literally said by the source (^). Anyways, I guess its fine for now. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:56, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- I adjusted the grammar, spelling, and prose a tiny bit.[1] - LouisAragon (talk) 00:02, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
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Disambiguation link notification for May 8
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Disruption of article on Mirza Fatali Akhundzade
[edit]Could you stop vandalizing the article on Mirza Fatali Akhundzade, your opinion is not a fact and therefore doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Akhundzade identified as an Iranian, not a Mongol, and was an Iranian ultra-nationalist. You attempt to fabricate sources to make the deleted sections like the "Alphabet Reform" look legitimate, but this is not the case and the source you provided does not mention anything written there. We discussed this and you had no counter-argument. Remember this is Wikipedia, the rule is on personal articles that unsourced things and false statements are not accepted and must be deleted immediately, please stop reverting the edits I have discussed in the talk section of the article. Migboy123 (talk) 08:14, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Migboy123, I never try to use my opinions in articles. I use references to write articles. And the references clearly show him as Azerbaijani. So it is you who fabricate the sources. And Akhundzade being Iranian nationalist is shown in the lead and entire section is dedicated to that. Please stop deleting the word "Azerbaijani".--Abutalub (talk) 10:28, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
You are misunderstanding it, therefore pushing your opinion. In this case when Azerbaijani is used and in the context it is referring to the people which inhabit the region of Iranian Azerbaijan, it also specifically says that he is ethnically Azerbaijani. It is not referring in any way or shape to what is now The Republic of "Azerbaijan", the people which live in the Republic of "Azerbaijan" are not Azerbaijani and their country is not Azerbaijan. The people inhabiting that piece of land which was orignally called "Aran" were known and identified their ethnicity as "Caucasian Tatars". Not only was Mirza Fatali Akhundzade Iranian in terms of nationality but also Azerbaijanis are apart of the Iranian peoples, therefore he is Iranian either way. You have to be able to interpret sources correctly, that is why you are pushing your opinion. You cannot also get a bunch of rubbish and call it "sourced" information as the information can (and is) be fabricated, manipulated, revised etc. I will keep deleting the word Azerbaijani because it does not apply to this man, he never identified as "Azerbaijani" as it was only his language, and this is a personal article, you have to write what people called themselves. It's also said that he is of Azerbaijani ethnicity. Migboy123 (talk) 01:27, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
Why are you interpreting the sources? Why don't you take facts as facts. Almost all Akhundzade's works are written in Azerbaijani. That's why Akhundzade is called by references as Azerbaijani playwriter, not Iranian playwriter. If you claim otherwise you have to go publish your own scientific articles outside wikipedia. Stop vandalism please.--Abutalub (talk) 08:31, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
This is not vandalism nor is it interpreting sources incorrectly. In fact that is you which is doing this. Encyclopedia Iranica considers Azerbaijanis as apart of the Iranian peoples. You have to understand the context of the Encyclopedia Iranica, which is what I stated. You do realize that the language which someone writes in doesn't change their identity, their culture, history or genetics? He wrote in Persian (Iranian language) and Russian as well, therefore he could be called Persian and Russian according to your logic. It doesn't matter what language he wrote it in, he is considered Iranian because that is what HE identified as. His contributions to the Republic of "Azerbaijan" where also indirect, he had no intention of benefiting them unlike his works on Iran. According to the research that I have accumulated over the years, the Azerbaijanis of Iran, which are also the only historical Azerbaijanis, are culturally, historically and genetically Iranian. This includes Mirza Fatali Akhundzade. Although today when someone says "Azerbaijani" it rings the bell of the country known as the Republic of "Azerbaijan", back then there was no such thing. So how can someone be considered from that country if it didn't exist? Your points seem to be a bit contradicting. Migboy123 (talk) 09:45, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
If you have references which tell that he is Russian writer go ahead and show them to me. If you have references which tell that he is Persian/Iranian writer go ahead and show them to me. Until that time we will use references which tell that he is Azerbaijjani.--Abutalub (talk) 10:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
Persian and Iranian is not the same thing, Persians are Iranian. LouisAragon added the references in, they are in the introduction. Read it for yourself. When you change the name, it isn't about the language/s he wrote it, what you are changing is his nationality/identity. I think you are confusing the two. Yes he was an Azerbaijani, Russian and Persian poet, but we was from Iran and was Iranian. Migboy123 (talk) 11:30, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
Are there any reliable references that say that he is Iranian poet? If not, then don't change article.--Abutalub (talk) 14:14, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Abutalub Yes, there is, except all the sources that you add are from Soviet sources which tried to "build a nation" for the Caucasian Tatars by taking Iranian history and figures or they are from Caucasian Tatars which try to push a Pan-Turk agenda. I've added two, from Columbia and Chicago university. So stop removing it now and labeling it as "vandalism". Even if you want to change history and someone's identity, history won't allow as he called himself Iranian and described himself as belonging to the nation of Iran. A belief carried by Azerbaijanis which lived in Aran before the Russian annexation in 1828, my family is from there. KhakePakeVatan (talk) 11:11, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Iranica is not soviet source.--Abutalub (talk) 13:22, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- Abutalub If you read what I've written above you'd know what Iranica classifies Azerbaijanis as apart of the Iranian peoples. If they weren't, then they wouldn't be added to it because Encyclopedia Iranica, as the name stipulates, is specific to the Iranian peoples. KhakePakeVatan (talk) 00:10, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for June 14
[edit]An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Mirza Fatali Akhundov, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Azerbaijani (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).
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ITN recognition for 17 August 2019 Kabul bombing
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On 18 August 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article 17 August 2019 Kabul bombing, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.
Masem (t) 15:39, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for September 4
[edit]An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Eastern poem on the death of Pushkin, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Azerbaijani (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).
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Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution
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Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from OIC Council of Foreign Ministers Resolution 10/37 Black Panther into List of damaged Islamic and Azerbaijani sites during Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 13:41, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
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Arbitration discretionary discretionary sanctions alert
Dear Abutalub, you have shown interest in Armenia, Azerbaijan, or related conflicts. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Nomination of List of damaged Islamic and Azerbaijani sites during the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict for deletion
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The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of damaged Islamic and Azerbaijani sites during the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
--Armatura (talk) 17:02, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
WP:COMPETENCE
[edit]Abutalub, I want to believe that you are acting in good faith in List of cultural monuments damaged in Nagorno-Karabakh conflict discussion. Per WP:COMPETENCE many editors have focused so much on this principle that they have come to believe that good faith is all that is required to be a useful contributor. Sadly, this is not the case at all. Competence is required as well. A mess created in a sincere effort to help is still a mess. For that reason, it can become necessary for the community to intervene when an editor has shown, through a pattern of behavior, the likelihood that they are not capable of contributing in a constructive manner. To avoid this, I suggest you for the second time, to stand back for a moment, read WP rules highlighted for your attention, and perhaps try editing less pretentious topics first before diving fully into controversial projects such as List of damaged Islamic and Azerbaijani sites during the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. People may get tired cleaning up the mess and replying to somebody who does not want to listen, even a newcomer acting in good faith. Asking people who hold the same point of view as yourself to support you is not going to help, WP is not a WP:BATTLEGROUND and Not listening what others (including third party editors) say and advancing a pretentious point of view despite repetitive requests of refraining from it may create a trouble. I hope for reflection and understanding. --Armatura (talk) 16:06, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
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Nomination of List of Azerbaijani cemeteries damaged in Nagorno-Karabakh conflict for deletion
[edit]The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Azerbaijani cemeteries damaged in Nagorno-Karabakh conflict until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
BilledMammal (talk) 02:42, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Pretentious editing in List_of_cultural_monuments_damaged_in_Nagorno-Karabakh_conflict
[edit]Hi Abutalub. I already had a chance to highlight the problematic edits you make in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_cultural_monuments_damaged_in_Nagorno-Karabakh_conflict&action=history As you can see from the talk page of this article, it is not just my opinion that a lot of your entries here are problematic, but that of uninvolved users as well. We assume good faith in Wikipedia, especially towards newcomers, but if you are coming to Wikipedia to make Armenia look bad and Azerbaijan to look like a victim, then I am sorry to say Wikipedia is not BATTLEGROUND and ADVOCACY is strictly prohibited. You did not respond to my previous concern raised on your talk page. Choosing to ignore the raised concerns and carrying on like this is likely to result in being reported on noticeboards, followed by a lot of unnecessary drama for everybody involved. May I ask you to think twice whether your intended edit corresponds to NPOV and WIKIVOICE before adding or removing anything in that list (that you created and pushed for keeping despite the concerns that it is going to become a battleground about whose woes are greater, and which may be a candidate for deletion anyway for that very reason). Regards, --Armatura (talk) 18:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
Canvassing?
[edit]Hi Abutalub. Your audience you invited to talk page of the non-neutral article you created does not pass the "non-partisan audience" requirement, hence may be viewed as WP:CANVASSING. This is not the first time. I have already asked you in the past to avoid doing that on another talk page. It is considered WP:DISRUPTIVE editing, and you have already been made aware of a lower threshold of sanctioning disruptive behaviour in Armenia-Azerbaijan topics. What makes you tag editors whose views you share when creating a page in AA subject, but not the ones who may potentially disagree with you? --Armatura (talk) 01:35, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Armatura, your edits in this [2] show that you don't follow Wikipedia rules. You are too traumatized and filled with patriotic feelings.Abutalub (talk) 07:35, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Nomination of List of cultural monuments damaged in Nagorno-Karabakh conflict for deletion
[edit]The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of cultural monuments damaged in Nagorno-Karabakh conflict until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
BilledMammal (talk) 13:20, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
ANI
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There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.. The topic is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Abutalub --Armatura (talk) 14:27, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Indefinite block
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{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. El_C 15:42, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- BTW, I'm willing to convert the block into an WP:AA2 WP:TBAN, if you're interested (though it seems unlikely as it's pretty much all that you do here). El_C 15:46, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- El_C, if you unblock me I will try not to edit controversial topics. Currently I want to use WikiLibrary but I can't. Please help me.--Abutalub (talk) 08:35, 2 February 2022 (UTC)