Talk:Jonathan Frid

Born of Scottish and English ancestry

There's a {{fact}} tag on "Born of Scottish and English ancestry..." I propose:

Born of Scottish and English{{fact}} ancestry,

Note the book source only supports the claim of Scottish heritage ("Jonathan Frid formed a production company called Clunes Associates in the [sic] 1986 to produce and promote his one-man shows. The name came from Frid's ancestral homestead in Scotland."). Good luck finding anything about English ancestry; too many false hits on the English language. TJRC (talk) 00:56, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Done Danger ^{High voltage!} 02:53, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Note that JF himself referred to his own English ancestry from his father's side of the family when asked by an interviewer in an interview for the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences Foundation in 2008. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.99.31.173 (talk) 10:32, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

In his interview/feature in 'Fantastic Monsters of Filmland', English, German and Danish ancestry is mentioned. They do not mention Scottish ancestry, though it has been stated in official books and his mother was certainly Scottish (McGregor). The Mummy (talk) 23:03, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Date of death

John passed away on Friday, April 13th, 2012 in Hamilton, Ontario. Would someone please help me edit this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.24.184 (talk) 00:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Please note that changes or additions to Wikipedia must be accompanied by a reliable source citation. Please do not make uncited claims, please do not change claims to say something that the cited source does not. The Hamilton, Ontario, newspaper and NBC's Today show website both give April 14. The April 13 date came from a fan site, not a journalistic source. Please see WP:VERIFY for the policy. Reverting in contradiction of cited sources is considered vandalism. WP:3RR does not apply to reverts for vandalism. -- Tenebrae (talk) 21:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I have reported this content dispute to WP:RFPP and WP:3RR. TomCat4680 (talk) 21:54, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Seems there's an edit war that I may have inadvertently taken part of here, over his date of death.

Some sources say he died on April 13:

• E!
• LA Times
• Washington Post
• New York Daily News

Others, April 14:

• MSN^*
• Hamilton News^*
• New York Daily News

^*These two sources are currently included in the article.

Interestingly, the New York Daily News article earlier today said April 13; but has now been updated to say April 14. The article is tagged as having been updated 3 hours after its initial publication, but no indication of what the edit was. It looks to me like April 14 is the correct date; but I must admit that I really want it to have been Friday the Thirteenth. TJRC (talk) 01:12, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Add Newsday, which says it spoke to the family, to the April 14 list. --Tenebrae (talk) 02:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Add Kathryn Leigh Scott Scott's blog has posted a message from Frid's family mentioning the date mix up and clarified the date to be April 13. Sissyangel (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC).

He died the 13th. Many sources claim it, so unprotect it so someone can put the right info down so the family is not mad and people are misleaded. Entertainer91 (talk) 18:32, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/arts/television/jonathan-frid-ghoulish-dark-shadows-star-dies-at-87.html According to this New York Times article Johnathan Frid died on April 13th not April 14th. 24.129.63.245 (talk) 22:53, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

The New York Times has since run a correction, and now says April 14. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:39, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

The date of Jonathan Frid's death was Friday, April 13th, not April 14th as stated in the article. Thank you! 76.18.117.50 (talk) 23:15, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

He died on the 13th rather than the 14th of April 76.241.98.151 (talk) 23:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

There is an ongoing discussion on the different dates given by different sources, as you can see above, so let's add the nytimes to the list, and see if we can figure out which is the right one. Protection of the article should not be lifted until a firm conclusion on this can be reached. Nightscream (talk) 23:45, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Reuters 13th of April. His obituary notice should have appeared in a local (Hamilton Ontario) paper of record. AndroidCat (talk) 13:06, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

And indeed, The Hamilton Spectator says April 14: "Frid’s character to live on: Hamilton actor helped make 1960s Dark Shadows a cult classic". --Tenebrae (talk) 14:16, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

I'd note that Kathryn Leigh Scott's blog, which carries the purported family statement that USA Today cites (and some papers have used from there), says this supposed statement was given to the fan site Shadowgram [1]. But nothing of the sort appears there. And since Newsday cites a family member for April 14, this raises questions. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:31, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

IT WAS REPORTED THAT MR. FRID DIED ON FRIDAY THE 13TH NOT ON SATURDAY THE 14TH. --76.89.208.78 (talk) 03:16, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

IT WAS ALSO REPORTED THAT MR. FRID DIED ON SATURDAY THE 14TH NOT ON FRIDAY THE 13TH.

Geez, turn your caps-lock key off and read a few posts above, will you? --Tenebrae (talk) 03:49, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Please don't shout. You must be more specific about exactly what you would like changed and gain consensus for that change. Danger ^{High voltage!} 04:36, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. This is at least the third time someone has started a new edit request section just to state what they think the date of death is, because they didn't bother reading the talk page. Nightscream (talk) 16:38, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Date of death proposal

It seems like it may be some time before we have any authoritative information on the date of Frid's death, if ever. In the meantime, the article says with apparent confidence "April 14." I propose that we acknowledge the uncertainty for the time being. Specifically:

• In the lede, use "(December 2, 1924 – April 13 or 14, 2012)";
• In the infobox, use "April, 2012 (aged 87)" (note, hard-coding instead of using {{death date and age}})
• In the section "Death," stating: "Frid died of natural causes in April 2012, at Juravinski Hospital in Hamilton, Ontario.[cites] News report vary as to whether the date of death was April 13[cites] or April 14.[cites]

Any objections? TJRC (talk) 21:34, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Note, if this sounds like an acceptable approach, I'll put together a formal edit request, with the formatted cites and all. TJRC (talk) 21:36, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Excellent idea, and we have a precedent with formatting in the infobox etc. at David Kelly (actor). --Tenebrae (talk) 23:47, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the most accurate reporting would be to say there is a discrepancy and cite sources for each. Great solution.842U (talk) 01:43, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm... only one editor concurring. Is this enough to call a consensus? TJRC (talk) 19:39, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've gone through this kind of thing more often than I'd care to, and the way it's always seemed to work out — whether quickly, as at David Kelly, or after months and months, as at Demi Moore regarding her birth name — is to give 2 or 3 reliable-source citations for each contention. Unless we've got something like the Social Security Death Index (which wouldn't help in this case since he's not a US citizen), there's pretty much no way to ascertain if equally reliable sources disagree. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:54, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Taking a bold move, I took the information as recommended by TJRC and placed them in the artcile. Will someone please cite the article (I placed the cite needed templates in those places). Thank you. swinquest (talk) 21:13, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Will do. On it. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:26, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

BTW, The New York Times just ran a correction: "This article has been revised to reflect the following correction: Correction: April 24, 2012: "An obituary on Friday about the actor Jonathan Frid, using information from a colleague, misstated the date of his death. It was April 14, not April 13." --Tenebrae (talk) 23:26, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

cc of post at User talk:Rusted AutoParts

Well, it's more than speculation — it was reported the 13th by the LA Times, the Washington Post and USA Today, to name three major papers. And both they and the ones saying the 14th have cited family sources since the family made a premature statement and then told a few papers something different. So that's not a practical phrase. And having someone shoot the tombstone is OR.

With all due respect, when major WP:RS papers contradict themselves, we can only report what they all say. Picking one over the other is POV. It also goes against the consensus on the article talk page.--Tenebrae (talk) 03:01, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Identity of Father

The source cited for Frid's father, Herbert Percival "H.P." Frid, does mention someone by that name, but does not make it clear that he is the father of Jonathan, the actor, as it never mentions Jonathan. Can we find other sources for this? Nightscream (talk) 06:05, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Concur. After giving it over a week, with no clarifiers or additional citations forthcoming, I've commented-out that section and the uncited information that followed, until WP:RS citing is found. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:28, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Is Maclean's [2] a reliable source? It says "the youngest son of Herbert Percival Frid, a wealthy construction executive, and his wife, Isabella Flora Frid (née McGregor)"; but that's a near-paraphrase of the Wikipedia article as it appeared at the time; and it's hard to tell whether the writer was cribbing from it. TJRC (talk) 23:56, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

One of Canada's most respected magazines, and there is information here that appears to have been generated independently. But you're right about the near-paraphrase — that's troublesome. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi All, thought I'd contribute a bit to clarify the issue of John/Jonathan's father. He was indeed Herbert Percival Frid, as can be seen on a birth record from "Ontario, Canada Births, 1832-1917" on Ancestry. His name is also confirmed in the "1921 Census of Canada" on Ancestry, where his full name was also recorded. I saw a video of Jonathan where he was being driven around Hamilton & was pointing out his boyhood home(s), where he mentioned certain streets; I was able to find him easily in the Canada Census. In the "1931 Census of Canada" on Ancestry, Jonathan is listed as "John", age 6, along with his brothers-- their names were not abbreviated. It is my understanding from an Internet source I read recently (I don't remember where) that Jonathan was his stage name. My credentials: I am primarily an Archaeologist, but secondarily a Historian, & have been doing Genealogy for 30 years. Feel free to use these sources for citations if desired-- I don't know how to do that-- I have only be a 'light' editor on Wiki for many years. If there are any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers. SaturnCat (talk) 06:40, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Frid's Hamilton Lifestyle

Hi. I just noticed tht this article on Mr. Frid was taken off a few months back. http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/remembering-jonathan-frid/

Any reason on why? I think it does contribute much information on his Canadian lifestyle that many do not know. Hired Ghoul (talk) 01:37, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

The article's history shows that the reference was removed on December 6th 2012 by IP address 70.67.178.170, with the comment "Death". I think you could reasonable replace it. Maproom (talk) 12:07, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Did so. Freaking irresponsible anon IPs. --Tenebrae (talk) 17:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

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{{In use}}

Hello, I am assisting a former partner of Jonathan Frid in adding new information to his page. It's my first time editing so I am bound to make some errors (links,etc.) that I will fix as I learn how. Karamel patti (talk) 20:06, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Giving up for now. I'll try again tomorrow. Karamel patti (talk) 22:54, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Advice on citation needed

Hello, I am preparing a small edit to the Jonathan Frid page for which I propose using this as a citation: Dark Shadows and Beyond - the Jonathan Frid Story, a 2021 Emmy-Award nominated documentary released by MPIMediaGroup, produced and directed by Mary O'Leary, herself a 5-time Daytime Emmy Award Winner (there is a short Wikipedia page about her). The documentation has also received many film festival award including a Telly Award. My question is how to provide a link for the citation since there is not (yet) a Wikipedia page for this documentary. So far I see the following options - could someone advise which one (or a different one) would be the best option?

1. Jonathanfrid.org, where one can play the trailer for the documentary and which has links to where it can be watched for free (like Tubi) or purchased (like Amazon.com).
2. The Youtube trailer for the documentary.
3. A link to where the documentary can be played on Tubi. (seems temporary since they could at some point remove it)
4. A link to where the documentary can be purchased on Amazon.com (seems a bit like an advertisement)
5. A Youtube video recording a discussion between the host and several of the Dark Shadows TV series actors talking about and introducing the release of the documentary.

I'm thinking #1 may be the best course of action? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Karamel patti (talk) 21:09, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

P.S. When citing, I will include a timestamp of where the information I am referencing is located in the documentary.

Sorry for the typo above: I typed documentation, I meant documentary. Karamel patti (talk) 21:12, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

@Karamel patti: use # 3. Provide as much information as possible (timestamp, name, date published, directors, production company, date the Tubi version was accessed, and so on). That way, when the link goes down, someone could still verify the information (such as by purchasing the documentary or borrowing it through a library). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I appreciate the help. Karamel patti (talk) 00:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

David Howitt - nephew vs. cousin

Hello, I noticed a discrepancy between the newspaper article cited for "Frid's nephew David Howitt..", in which Mr. Howitt is noted as Jonathan Frid's nephew, and a different newspaper article where he is noted as Jonathan Frid's cousin (last page of The Hamilton Spectator's article here: thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/flashbacks-hamilton/2022/03/08/hamilton-actor-jonathan-frid-documentary-dark-shadows.html, which sometimes asks me to subscribe to see the article and sometimes doesn't - I have a PDF of the article if needed). So I checked the documentary here: tubitv.com/movies/637245/dark-shadows-and-beyond-the-jonathan-frid-story. At about timestamp 5:14 David Howitt is speaking on camera and the title says "David Howitt, Jonathan's Cousin". Later in the documentary David Howitt says "Uncle John." I was able to contact the 5-time Emmy Award-Winning producer of the documentary, Mary O'Leary, by phone, to ask about the seeming conflict. Ms. O'Leary confirmed that David Howitt is Mr. Frid's cousin, but that he called him "Uncle John" as an endearment because of their age difference. Ms. O'Leary noted that she was the one who was interviewing Mr. Howitt on camera in that segment of the documentary. Considering that Mr. Howitt referred/refers to Mr. Frid as "Uncle John", it seems understandable that the newspaper article cited for "Frid's nephew David Howitt" would therefore assume that Mr. Howitt was indeed Mr. Frid's nephew and not actually his cousin. Thoughts? Concerns? Is this clarification and evidence sufficient to change the wording in the page to "cousin" and adjust the citations accordingly? Karamel patti (talk) 03:21, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, having received no comment and since there could be confusion on a reader's part between "cousin" potentially being used in the text (with citations), and the current cited newspaper article saying "nephew", I propose changing "nephew" to the more generic "relative." I'll go ahead and do that; please let me know if there are any objections. Karamel patti (talk) 02:54, 15 September 2023 (UTC)