Cmglee

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File:The main building of the Baltic Exchange after its completion in 1903.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:The main building of the Baltic Exchange after its completion in 1903.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Ixfd64 (talk) 19:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

viewstl.com links

Hello again Cmglee. I noticed that there are six articles where you changed the link of the STL files to point to a third-party website. Is this still necessary? The viewer is currently working and I don't notice any rendering differences. Opencooper (talk) 04:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Opencooper: I respectfully disagree that the viewer is working. It has a bad flickering effect on Firefox similar to z-fighting (but not due to coincident planes), such as http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hollow_face_illusion.stl#/media/File:Hollow_face_illusion.stl and especially http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Szilassi_polyhedron.stl#/media/File:Szilassi_polyhedron.stl . Until this can be fixed, I think readers would much prefer the viewstl viewer, which also allows different shading modes and colour. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 09:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, I was only looking at File:De_bruijn_torus_3x3.stl. I don't notice anything that stands out at the hollow face file on Firefox (the shading makes it nicer), but it's very clear that the Szilassi polyhedron has rendering issues at the edges. I can see why you made the changes now.

One problem might be though that users normally expect clicking a file to open the MediaViewer. Going to a third-party site might surprise many, and they would miss out on learning that you created these files and released them under an open license.

I vaguely remember on your interactive SVGs that you included a link in parenthesis at the end of the caption. Would that approach work here? Opencooper (talk) 10:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

You've a fair point. I used a link in parenthesis before I discovered the thumbnail link parameter.

We could have a template to add the link to viewstl at the end of the caption. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 16:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

A template might be overkill since it's only six files :p. But if you're fine with it I could make the change, including a comment pointing out it's there for the rendering issues. Opencooper (talk) 03:44, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I've done one as per http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=De_Bruijn_torus&diff=prev&oldid=1209296659 . Any thoughts? cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 06:10, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Looks good! Opencooper (talk) 08:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Penang Meetup

@Cmglee: Hello! I replied to your question on Meta but just in case you didn't get the notification: Yes 11th March meetup is confirmed for a WikiGap event. Please message me on Discord to the same username (ultron90) if you are interested in joining and helping out with organizing the event. We would highly appreciate your attendance. Looking forward to meeting you. Ultron90 (talk) 00:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I'll reply on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ultron90#Penang_meetup_5

Regards, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 15:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Abbe error

Wow, thanks! I'm very impressed. I added the {{diagram requested}} template and figured it would hang around for a few years, maybe somebody would discuss what it should look like, and then not much would happen. I had no conception that somebody might draft, execute, and post a diagram in less than a week! Nice job and thank you (and Anasofiapaixao commons:User:Dnu72 for the supporting images)! jhawkinson (talk) 13:03, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jhawkinson: Thanks and my pleasure! I came across the article on Category:Wikipedia_requested_diagram_images and the topic is one I've some interest in, so I decided to illustrate it. Do you have any comments about the image itself? Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 14:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@CmgleeI do have some thoughts on the image; is this the right forum, though? Basically, I think it is a little bit hard to read because of overlapping items. If you're a machinist or someone else quite familiar with calipers and micrometers, it's pretty easy to read and understand. But if you're a lay person trying to understand what Abbe error is, you're going to get very confused very fast. Some quick thoughts:

• Don't overlap the text "Measurement axis" with the micrometer. Move the text down and use a pointed callout arrow, or move the text to the left or right of the instrument.
• Dim/mute/grey out the details of the micrometer and the caliper, i.e. the tick marks and the numbers. Those are (I think) not particularly helpful for the lay person in understanding the instrument, and they help make it clear that the measurement axis is what we want to talk about. (It seems like it is necessary for the measurement axis line to be illustrated in a way that overlaps the instrument, since that's what it is).
• Consider extending the measurement axis lines further left/right beyond the bounds of the instruments (technically they already do that, but they could extend rather further).
• The h, θ, ε triangle is far too small. I'm not sure how best to fix that. One would be to have a zoom rectangle that blows up only that portion of the graphic. Another would be to swap the caliper and the micrometer such that the caliper was on the bottom, and then extend the triangle further down so that it is larger; this approach may have problems.
• There is an open shape created by the the h line, the ε, and the slanted right edge of the moving jaw, and all of them have a dotted line. I do not understand what this dotted line is indicating, and that is confusing to me. Actually, I'm not sure why there are two lines on the right edge of that jaw. One is the jaw itself and one is something else, and I do not know which is which or what.
• Usually, angles are marked within the angle with a ∡ symbol inside the triangle. There isn't space to do that here, so the θ is marked outside of the angle. That is confusing, and I'm not sure that reasonable person who did not know what θ was here would correctly identify it.

The reason I suggested initially in the es that "probably more than one" diagram might be necessary, is that I think it's very helpful to have this kind of diagram with a caliper and a micrometer, but I also think there should be another diagram that is more accessible to people not familiar with those tools. I am…not quite sure what a good example might be, though, I have not given this sufficent thought.

Thanks. Sorry if this is more than you bargained for. jhawkinson (talk) 20:06, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the clear feedback. I'll see what I can do. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 03:22, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Would it make sense to have this discussion on the article's talk page before you do too much work? jhawkinson (talk) 23:48, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I'll copy your comments to talk:Abbe error. Let's continue there. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 02:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Building Timelines

Hello Cmglee, you have created some great graphics here. Do you have any reccomendations where to start, which software to use if I would like to build some historical timelines. MarkkuP 18:10, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks, @MarkkuP: it depends what skills and software you already have.

If you're already familiar with vector drawing software such as Adobe Illustrator, you could use it and export SVG files.

Otherwise, a good free editor is Inkscape.

If you prefer to generate images programmatically, please see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:SVG_created_with_JavaScript

Let me know if you've any specific questions! cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 02:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

P.S. As you wish to make historical timelines, an alternative without creating your own image is to use a Wikipedia extension such as Wikipedia:EasyTimeline.

Pros: easier for others to maintain when data is updated, to add hyperlinks, and possibly to learn than SVG markup.

Cons: limited in what it can do, less portable if you wish to use it somewhere else, and possible more difficult than Inkscape etc.

Good luck! cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 02:12, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the information @Cmglee, I will go with Inkscape then. MarkkuP (talk) 03:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Comparison of Mercator projections.svg

Template:Comparison of Mercator projections.svg has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 11:45, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Just dropping by

I spent a good deal of time admiring your latest ingenuity via your user page! Hope you are doing well. Shyamal (talk) 04:28, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Shyamal: how are you and what have you been up to lately?

Happy to know that at least one person looks at my user page! If you're referring to the AI hybrid image, yes, recent developments have opened exciting opportunities. Glad Commons is willing to accept AI-generated images.

I note that you've been uploading historical photos and a view of Lake Como. Are you at Wikimania?

Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 07:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I wish I was at Wikimania but no. I have been trying to empty some hard drive space. But I had missed quite a few of your creations of the year so not just the AI image. Shyamal (talk) 07:44, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I missed applying for a scholarship, too. Next time then... Hope you're still into drawing SVG. Your bird art is really good! cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 08:24, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hello Cmglee, I'm Nikolaj1905. I just wanted to thank you for so speedily providing sources for the weasel statement that I flagged at The Last Supper.

Sincerely, Nikolaj1905 (talk) 10:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

My pleasure, @Nikolaj1905. I had the sources handy as I had the info they quoted. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 19:52, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Below the Root CGA.png

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Euler characteristic hypercube simplex orthoplex.svg

Template:Euler characteristic hypercube simplex orthoplex.svg has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 10:43, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Rawdog

Cmglee, why did you put a external link in the article? Even if it was meant as a disambiguation, you never use external links in these situations. scope_creep^Talk 10:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Fair point. I put in the link as there is currently no article about it, and wanted to have a reliable source. I've reinstated it without the link. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 12:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Edit moon names cs

Hi Cmglee, I am from Czech Republic and I just did noticed that on the page with moon are missed moon craters with names pointing out on them. I am sepaking about this image -> https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C5%99ivr%C3%A1cen%C3%A1_strana_M%C4%9Bs%C3%ADce#/media/Soubor:Moon_names_cs.svg You can clearly see that moon is slightli rotated to the right there (take example of Tycho crater, same equal for every crater). Is there any chance you can repair that to let our Czech wiki users see it right? I did try with AI image editors but failed. Hope it wont be a issue for you, Best wishes:-) Novotny-it (talk) 20:29, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Restored

@Novotny-it: Thanks for bringing it to my attention. @Sebastian Wallroth: vectorised the moon bitmap but did not ensure that the labels still lined up. I've restored the previous version. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:07, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

BRI calculator, silhouettes on coloured background

Please have a look at Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox.

It looks very close to a working soltion, but it requires somebody with knowledge of programming and CSS to finish it. Uwappa (talk) 18:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

@Uwappa: Do you want me to show the appropriate thumbnail depending on the BRI calculated?

I know how to hide or show content depending on the selection of radio buttons like how the height and waist units change when Metric or Imperial is selected, but not how to do that based on a calculated value.

It needs the content of an HTML span (with id=calculator-field-roundedBoundedBri) to be accessible in a CSS selector.

You'll have to ask somemone else, like the people who developed Template:Calculator.

Good luck, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 22:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

P.S. Apparently it's not possible without JavaScript:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1520429/is-there-a-css-selector-for-elements-containing-certain-text

and I don't know how to add JavaScript to Wikipedia that will automatically activate for everyone. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 22:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes! The puzzle is: Show just one silhouette in just one background colour based on the derived roundedBoundedBri.

• My current attempt is to have 20 bri rows and just show one row. Yes, the variable roundedBoundedBRI results in a generated html span with id 'calculator-field-roundedBoundedBri'. How to use that value to dynamically show just one row?

• No idea how. A span's content is not the same as the state of a radio button/checkbox. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 12:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• The calculator CSS already has some nifty no-javascript hiding/showing using :checked for cm/inch fields based on the Units radio button. So a workaround would be to have hidden radio buttons bri1, bri2, ... bri20. But... I don't know how to generate such radio buttons with the calculator.
• An alternative would be to have only one row, one cell for silhouettes, with 20 cropped images and let a dynamic CSS class take care of the background colour and showing just 1 silhouette. I was unable to to create something like class="briroundedBoundedBri" resulting in class="bri1", class="bri2", ... class="bri20". Is there any way to pick up the value of a variable, similar to Help:Magic_words#Variables?

• That's exactly what's needed, but I don't know how to do it. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 12:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• You may have some dynamic SVG technique up your sleeve that I am not aware of.

• Only if the SVG or thumbnail can get at the variable (see above). cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 12:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

User:Doc James is enthusiastic about the design and happy to assist, but is currently travelling, see User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241016212000-Uwappa-20241016182400.

Please feel welcome to update the sandbox. Any solution is welcome. Uwappa (talk) 07:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• Perhaps the weirdest solution is to create a custom font with characters, say, A to T being the silhouettes wanted. Instead of outputing a number, we output the appropriate letter, scaled and coloured accordingly! cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 12:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Creative! But... such characters would have to be strings, which the calculator does not allow in formulas. And quite complex for the rest of us too. And the font would be hard to maintain.

  Never mind mate, because... after two days of puzzling I have found a solution that is just too easy!!!

  1. Dynamically check one of 20 hidden checkboxes using ifequal in formulas.
  2. to do: write CSS to show only one BRI row, based on the one checked checkbox.

  See Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox.

  Play with waist size and see how the checkmark moves from checkbox to checkbox. Only one checkbox is checked at a time, matching roundedBoundedBri going up and down from 1 to 20.

  Would you like to take the last hurdle and finish the CSS to show only the right BRI row? Your CSS skills outclass mine. Uwappa (talk) 16:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Congrats! Let me see what I can do this weekend. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 21:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Great! Thank you so much. Very happy to have you on board here.

  And... another solution popped up, even easier:

  • Use just one BRI row with just one TD, one image for all 20 silhouettes, display: block the image so it covers the full TD width
  • Put the 20 hidden checkboxes in the same TD as the silhouette as they need the same parent for CSS pseudo class :checked to work.
  • Use 20 CSS statements to crop to one silhouette. No need for current 20x {{CSS image crop}}.
  • Use CSS for dynamic background colour of the image, not the TD. Nice to have: there could be a smooth transition of background colours.
  • The BRI value will not have background colour, good, as it will be readable, even on the dark red background colours.

  This is on the edge of my CSS skills, but I shall give it a try today, Friday 18 Oct. And if that does not work out, I will undo and you are good to go for a rebound this weekend. Uwappa (talk) 06:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

  And... after a lot of debugging, walking away, endless puzzling, it works like a charm!

  No advanced CSS cropping required, managed to use Template:CSS_image_crop in the end.

  Spent hours and hours puzzling about a generated undesired paragraph tag, separating siblings that needed the same direct parent for the CSS pseudo class :checked to work.

  Could you have look at Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox. Is that good to go live? Are the wikitext source and CSS understandable for technical wikipedians?

  And :) enjoy your weekend doing other things. Uwappa (talk) 16:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

  @Uwappa: Congratulations in getting the mechanics sorted: very smart of you to use checkboxes with ifequal. I also like it that updating one field automatically updates its equivalent.

  I've edited the styling to make it clearer, in my opinion:

  1. Added Units row and spaced out the entry fields to show they are two views of the same attribute.
  2. Used ft and in instead of prime symbols which look detached next to the entry fields.
  3. Added horizontal padding around prompt classes, and increased contrast.
  4. Horizontally and vertically centered assorted table cells.

  With the background shading, the ellipses now appear redundant. Should I remove the ellipses?

  Otherwise, it all looks good and understandable, as long as one is familiar with Template:calculator. Should the use of checkboxes to select images to show should be in the template's documentation as a case study?

  Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 01:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you!

  1. The unit row looks good. With the underlining the heading looked like hyperlinks. I have changed the looks to a standard heading match the field prompts.
  2. ft and in are good, short enough.
  3. restyling of prompt classes looks good. I've checked your CSS updates and they are clear.
  4. hor and ver alignment is OK now. The removal of the radio buttons changed the game.

  @Uwappa: Thanks for your feedback.

  Yes! please remove the ellipse. Correct, it is redundant now. It will allow the silhouettes to be used on WHtR. See discussion on WHtR talkpage with user:JMF for how the ellipse is currently blocking an update.

 Done

Comparison of waist (cyan)-to-height (pink) ratio and body roundness index (the waist circumference is circularised (dashed cyan), and its diameter is used to calculate the eccentricity of the dotted black ellipse)

• I think the ellipse should reincarnate in a new graphic, with just one silhouette, similar to or File:Idiocracy_movie_poster.jpg with:

  • a rectangle explaining the WHtR formula
  • and ellipse explaining the Body_roundness_index#Calculation formula as it does in figure 1 and 2 of the Thomas publication

  The difference between the two can be explained in a new article Body roundness.

  As a little graphical joke, you could even reuse Da Vinci's or the Idiocracy man in stead of a silhouette.

Though I like the idea, I think prudes might be offended by a naked man. I've thus chosen an androgynous character with a clear waist and feet flat on the ground.

• Yes! The use of checkboxes should be explained on the calculator template. Preferably with a clear, working example. This was on the edge of my CSS skills and should not have been so time consuming.

  • It took me a **** day to find the hidden checkboxes that were the equivalents of the radio buttons. I could not understand how the CSS was related to the radio buttons.
  • It took me another *** day to debug and find the automatically generated html paragraph because of line breaks in wikitext. Those automatically generated paragraphs are there for div's on a new line, but not for spans on a new line. It was driving me nuts.

  It is back to the drawing board with the colours at the moment. Could those colours be central constants, similar to Template:Party_color? So BRI colours are defined just once, for use in SVG images and article wikitext. Do you have the technical skills to set up such a template? I think such constants should have health level related names, so they can also be used for future WHtR graphics. Or even better, risk related names like: safe, risky, dangerous, deadly. Uwappa (talk) 07:37, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Great effort! I think your putting the values in bmi.css is already good enough. Instead of bri#, the classes could have specific names, but then it becomes tricky to use in other languages. Is there a standardised code? I'm not well versed in this topic. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 13:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Can you use the same CSS in SVG for ? That would be great!

   Done I lowered the opacity to 75% as it was the saturation hurt my eyes. It also isn't dynamic (it won't automantically update when the CSS does).

  Can we use the same CSS for the graph at Body_roundness_index#Range_of_body_roundness?

  Guess you can just add

  and use the classes as you did in the calculator. The gradient will be discrete instead of continuous, though.

  I am in doubt about changing the class names

  • Yes, the names should be danger levels, not BRI numbers
  • Yes, we should move away from BRI, as it is the 弟弟 (the younger brother) of WHtR
  • No, that will be hard to understand, as all the computations are BRI based.

  I am not a medic, so I don't know about standardised codes. So far it has been quite tough to find category names for health risk levels.

  So for now, I'd say just stick to bri1, bri2... bri20. Uwappa (talk) 13:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Fine by me! cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 14:00, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  P.S. The lighter colours of the calculator labels make them hard to read. If you haven't seen the WCAG guidelines, see http://accessibleweb.com/color-contrast-checker . Thanks, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 14:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Wow, the SVG version of really looks different. It is not just another graph, it conveys another meaning, another, very small, 'green zone'.

  Wow, there is a lot of red in that graph now. I actually prefer the old colours.

  The new version looks very red, frightening, but well, maybe that is just reality as it is.

  Please use the live version of the CSS, not the sandbox one.

  Please give me the exact link. Template:BMI_calculator2/bmi.css?  Done cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, Template:BMI calculator2/bmi.css Uwappa (talk) 11:39, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

  I am not sure what you mean by 'lighter colours of the calculator labels'. Do you mean the headers and the field prompts? What I try to do there: yes, make them less readable, which is OK as it is fixed info that the reader will read only once, if at all. Let the focus go to the variable input and output, with high contrast. You are welcome to fine-tune those colours. Uwappa (talk) 15:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  I'd agree if it's a tool one uses frequently. However, many readers will have encountered the tool for the first time. Additionally, different people have different eyesight and screens, so it's best to stick with WCAG recommendations. cmɢʟee

  No worries. The SVG does update automatically, it is a matter of browser cache. To me the old version shows in my every day browser, but the new version shows in a less often used browser. Uwappa (talk) 15:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I mean frequency of use in a different way, which applies during just the first and possibly only visit:

• People will look at the field prompts only once. Reading the field prompts a second time does not add value, as constants do not change.
• People will look at input variables every time they change a value, at the least.
• People might look at variable output (which could also be input in the calculator) every time they are interested in the computed result.

So that is a look-once for the field prompts, look-many-times for variable info. Field prompts really should take the backseat. Variable input is the star of the show. To me the field prompt are easy to read so I am a bit clueless what the change should be. Feel free to change the sandbox CSS yourself. Uwappa (talk) 00:17, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done! I've found out what's going on: it's the results e.g. "no increased health risk // 0.44 // 2.46" that was barely visible, not the prompts; my mistake. What happened is that I use a dark theme, so text is rendered as a light grey. As the background-color of the table was set without setting a [foreground] color, the contrast was very low.

Moral of the story: when setting the background colour, also set the foreground colour. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 00:30, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Big smile! Uwappa (talk) 00:57, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

woman silhouette for BRI

Oops, sorry, I completely missed . That graph is not clear to me, too busy: BRI is based on just two variables with one output variable. So I would expect to see 3 things here.

1. length
2. waist size
3. BRI, based on some complex ellipse formula

The purple line is clear. That is height, input.

So where is the other input variable. Where is the other purple object? Is that the blue ellipse? Why is that blue, not purple?

To distinguish it from height.

Waist size is troublesome:

• waist size is a simple 1D variable, is that the blue line at the bottom. Why is it below the feet? Why is it not purple, just like height?
  • Yes. To form the side of the white rectangle (I could also put it on top). See above.
• measured in real life in 2D (width, depth), a horizontal ellipse around a 3D person
• where the picture is another 2D (width, height).
• for the big ellipse, the BRI formula converts the waist size to a diameter, as if the waist is a circle?
  • That's indeed how the BRI formula works: assume the waist is a circle, use its diameter as a minor axis of ellipse (the height is the major axis, for not-too-obese people), and calculate the eccentricity of the ellipse (dotted black).

Pffft, that is a complex story to explain with just one picture!

It could've been as simple as WHtR but unfortunately that's how the BRI creator designed the index.

Side note: shouldn't "waist-to-height ratio" be "WtHR" instead of "WHtR"?

Alternative:

1. do not use a 2D silhouette, but use an image of a 3D woman with with a going round her waist, the part behind her not visible.
   • That doesn't explain the maths at all.
2. skip the imaginary circle. Simplify reality asif every waist is a perfect circle and just show a purple horizontal line for diameter, a purple horizontal line inside the tape measure at the waist.
   • It might mislead people (it did to me initially) to think that the dotted ellipse is simply the width of the waist seen from the front. It's not: it's the width after the circumference is circularised.

     IMPORTANT NOTE: Alas, that means I'd drawn File:body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg incorrectly! I drew the figures assuming that the waist is circular. As real humans generally don't have circular waists, they should be a bit wider, but I don't have any data or conversion factor to draw the correct width. How do we solve this? cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 00:41, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

3. purple length and purple diameter will be a 'cross' fitting the big ellipse.
   • That assumes the waist is halfway up the body, which normally isn't.

Or simpler:

1. keep the 2D silhouette
2. forget the ellipse around the waist, waist size and a perfect waist circle.
3. keep the vertical purple line for height
4. show a horizontal purple line for diameter
5. show the big ellipse, fitting the purple 'cross'.

Or dead easy:

1. keep the 2D silhouette
2. forget all, but the big ellipse

That will be very similar to the current

Eh... that would be very easy, just use one of the curent silhouettes and you're done!

The general public will probably just use the calculator, can't be bothered to look at the formula and the explaining graph.

For mathematicians the formula is clear enough on its own.

The graph will be for the readers somewhere in the middle. Explain the formula in text, waist size is the input variable, the imaginary diameter is computed using pi. Uwappa (talk) 17:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I think if one wants to explain the formula – and an encyclopedia should show how the formula arises in the appropriate section, not just what the end results mean healthwise – the sequence is needed (perhaps with arrows or numbers leading from one blue shape to the next). Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 00:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, so how about a sequence of graphs to explain the formula?

$${\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\;\;\pi \;\;\;\;\;\times \;\;\;\;\;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}$$

1. one graph showing just the start, the input variables, height (vertical line) and waist in same colour (part of ellipse that is in front of body, the part behind the body transparent or dotted)
2. a second graph showing the height and an intermediate colour circle for a perfect round waist, circle partly visible, just like waist ellipse. Elllips next to the silhouette. The current circle on the body looks like a . Pity the lady, she is under fire!
3. a third graph showing the height and intermediate colour diameter (converted from waist, the pi bit of the formula)
4. a fourth graph showing the 'final colour' ellipse, surrounding a faded out height and diameter, the remaining bit of the formula

Step 3 would be easier to understand with diameter=waist/pi in stead of pi*height:

$${\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist/pi}}{\text{height}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}$$

The sequence of colours could be visualised with a gradient, e.g. blue for input, via cyan for intermediate, to green for final result, the ellipse. Uwappa (talk) 10:41, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I am clueless about the "364.2-365.5" bit. I am also clueless about the sqrt, the 1- and the square. Why didn't they aim for an easy BRI value like '1', '10' or '100' for optimum health? Trash all the constants and what will remain is the simple formula WHtR=waist/height which could be visualised by a simple rectangle, no ellipse required. What were they drinking thinking? Uwappa (talk) 15:48, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Let me think about it. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:05, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

CSS, SVG questions

Please select in your preferences: Enables javascript Calculator template to see a working calculator.

WHtR to BRI converter

$${\text{WHtR}}={\frac {\text{waist}}{\text{height}}}$$	0.5
$${\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\;\;\pi \;\;\;\;\;\times \;\;\;\;\;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}$$	3.358811
Waist	80
Height	160

1. Would it be possible to dynamically show a red dot like in Location maps on the blue line of , based on height and width input?
2. Could SVG graph use colours directly from Template:BMI calculator2/bmi.css. So if the colours change in the CSS, the SVG automatically shows the new colours?

And: please update the current colours in the SVG, as the shown colours are from the sandbox calculator, which is not public yet.

Uwappa (talk) 10:13, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

In reverse order...

2. I don't know of a way for the SVG to read external files. (I wouldn't dare to say it's not possible after you've shown with your calculator that it's possible to use a calculator result to show different images which I thought impossible.) Try asking at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical).

P.S. We used a transparent background for the silhouette and coloured the background instead. Perhaps there's a way to set multiple "transparent" values and somehow have each affect a part of the image. No idea how.

1. As above, or ask the template:calculator developers. Your trick of having one image for each possible result would require too many images.

Good luck, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:05, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks.

Search for @import svg css for details on the @import statement in svg. Uwappa (talk) 11:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I think that takes effect when the SVG is opened in a browser, not when Mediawiki renders it as a PNG thumbnail which is what appears on articles. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:35, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. I was inspired by your interactive , but duh... I was watching the SVG, not a derived PNG.

Still not giving up yet: Can SVG code be inserted as wikitext, just like HTML? Could it be in a template? Uwappa (talk) 11:48, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that's allowed, but once again could be mistaken. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 15:58, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I've given it a try and it failed. Uwappa (talk) 16:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Ha, ha, ha, thank you, I thought you were the SVG CSS genius around here. Hiding those images took me 3 *** days of puzzling!

Hm, yes, an image for each possible dot would be too much. A poor mans alternative:

• show two crossing lines (vertical, horizontal), where the crossing point would have been the red dot location.
• use rounded values for both lines, so the number of lines is limited.

Both lines could be very transparent, hardly visible, but the crossing point is coloured twice, has 'more' colour. That would show as a little square, almost a dot.

Now... if the SVG can read an external CSS, a line drawn with SVG may show/hide based on a hidden checkbox/radiobuttons in the parent html. Uwappa (talk) 11:35, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

One possibility is to have an image of a vertical line at the appropriate position for each possible waist value (rounded) and a horizontal line for each height value, and overlaying them over a blank graph. The work ensuring that they all line up is likely not worth the effort. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

And... no. There would not be too many dots, as any dot will be on the blue line. Duh...

20 dots, say one for every BRI value would be enough. Uwappa (talk) 14:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I see. In that case, you could what you did for the silhouettes i.e. one graph with a pre-marked point for each BRI, either an image with 20 graphs or template:location map showing a marker on the above graph. Frankly, I don't think it's worth the effort, especially since each marker has to cover a fairly large (5%) part of the graph. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 15:57, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Brilliant, thank you! This is an easy solution.

20 Template:Site_plan will work, each with the same chart as background and it's own red dot.

And that is very similar to 20 cropped BRI silhouettes, doable.

Agree, not really accurate, but a bigger fuzzy dot will mask that. The accurate values could be below the chart in a legenda, with the same fuzzy dot again. Those values could be the input calculator fields.

It won't be perfect, but good enough to show that WHtR and BRI values are related. Uwappa (talk) 16:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)