JAMES FRANCO ('Sonny')
What was Nicolas Cage's involvement with this project, before he brought it to you?
Nick had been involved with the script for ten years; he was going to act in it originally. Even before that, I guess that it was Richard Gere and then he went and did "American Gigolo." From what Nick told me, he wanted to do it but couldn't find a director. Barbet Schroeder was going to and then didn't. He did "Barfly" [instead].
Nick had always wanted to direct and the strike was coming up, the SAG strike and the writer's strike was already happening, and he wanted to fit something in before then but he had no acting projects. He said to me, "I always wanted to direct a family drama, a good old family drama. So this is it." He went and checked if this was still available and it was. [This was listed as ] one the top five un-produced screenplays by, I think, the "Los Angeles Times" or whoever does that.
Did Nicolas Cage see "James Dean" and cast you because of that role? Your character Sonny shares similar characteristics with James Dean.
No, he cast me before he saw "James Dean." He'd seen nothing of my work. I went in and read for him and he cast me, and then he later saw "James Dean" after I was cast.
In a way this is similar to "East of Eden," but not really. I mean, the mother in "East of Eden" runs a bordello and my mother has a couple of, you know, girls. But that's more about a guy who hasn't had a mother in his life and is searching for that, and I've had a domineering mother in my life, in this. I'm loyal to her but at the same time I'm trying to break away from everything that she's taught me.
What attracted you to this role?
Nicolas Cage, for one. I've always like his acting. I felt like the role had a lot of potential. It was full of dramatic opportunities but also, it was something that could be done in a very quirky, eccentric way. I felt that, of all people, Nick would be very familiar with those kinds of roles and have a lot of insight. I thought he'd be the ideal director for it.
How did you adjust to those long scenes in the nude? Was that difficult for you?
Yeah, that was a new experience. They gave me a sock and I put that on - I taped that on. Years ago when I first went onstage, it was scary when one has inhibitions that have been built up. To be an actor, it's a matter of just breaking those down and just doing it and saying, "What the heck, I'm just doing it." As long as I know that it's for a good purpose and it's telling a story. I'm playing a prostitute so I think it would be kind of silly to hide that totally. It's part of the job. It's the same as bearing emotions in a way. It's the same kind of getting over that fear.
What did you focus on for this role?
I think the relationship with the mother was kind of the center of that. I went and met a lot of people. I looked for people who - it seemed like people were in prostitution for many different reasons - and I looked for people who seemed that they were trapped either financially because if they left this life, they would be paid a fraction of what they we're getting, or there are a lot of emotional blocks, feeling comfortable with this world, feeling appreciated in this world while at the same time knowing that it's destructive. Maybe even feeling inadequate in the outer world. I looked for people like that. It's a story about a guy who doesn't know anything else and it's not just his mother, but it's his own insecurities and low self worth that imprisons him.
While researching "City by the Sea," you went homeless for a few days. How involved did you get in the research for this role?
Well, I was also a heroin addict in "City By The Sea" and I didn't do any heroin [laughing].
Did you talk to drug addicts for that movie?
Yes, I did. For "City By the Sea," I met many addicts who were either clean or still using. And for this, I met many sex workers either still working or who had previously been prostitutes.
What did you learn from them?
Well, like I was saying, there are all different kinds. I met people here in L.A., San Francisco and in New Orleans. In L.A., it seemed to be primarily escort services, very much behind the scenes where one would call and people would come to the house. In New Orleans, it was much more accessible on the street level. I could go in the French Quarter to the strip clubs or around those areas and just run into people or ask around and I didn't have to really call. Some people are in it because they claim that it's a fast, fun lifestyle that they enjoy. Some feel like they're doing a service and claim that it's a choice of a lifestyle that they like, especially in San Francisco. There was even a Sex Worker film festival, which was not pornography in the conventional sense. It's fictional movies about people in the sex trade. So, it's a very kind of tight community and there's almost a
pride and solidarity and a resistance to the negative implications put on the profession. There's also people who seem trapped or are in situations that they don't want to be in.
Why did Sonny get involved in prostitution?
[Because of] Sonny's personality and the way he was brought up - supposedly this is based on a true story. The true story that I got was that this was someone who was brought up from a young age, and it was actually, originally, in the sixties, and his family ran brothels in Dallas. Here was a kid who was in that world and he had prostitutes all around and they showed him how it was done - and he was a kid. He knew how it was done and when he came of age, he suddenly got in the business. He was taught this as an entry way of taking over the business as he got older.
Did you hear a lot of wild stories from the prostitutes you spoke with? How did their stories help you prepare for playing 'Sonny?'
Well, the thing that I guess that I had to do was, it seemed as if they had practiced putting on a kind of act. I had to differentiate what I felt was the true human underneath, what were the real feelings that they lived with from day to day, and what was the persona that they were acting for me. Of course I got a lot of crazy stories from some, but what I tried to do is find personalities that I could see underneath the act that I thought would fit with Sonny and then spend as much time as I could with those particular people. I narrowed down my subjects. And then if they let me, [I'd] go into their apartments and see how they lived and [meet] their friends.
In a strange way, I don't know what the perception of sex workers is, but they go and see movies like us, which was kind of a shock, too. They watch TV. It's supposed to be some crazy, dangerous life, but they live kind of a similar lifestyle to most people that age, except that their job is a little different and definitely has affects on them. But in other ways, they were kind of normal too.
How hard was it to get them to talk to you?
I originally went in to these places saying that I was a writer and that I was doing a book on sex workers, and they weren't very open. "James Dean" had come out but "Spider-Man" hadn't - and no awards or anything like that - so no one knew who I was and no one was talking. They knew that Nicolas Cage was going to film a movie there and so I said I'm starring in it. Then everyone was very forthcoming.
Sometimes they were very shy because they were used to just going and doing their job without a lot of talk, and then leaving. Sometimes I'd call up the escort service and have them come over and I'd say, "I'll just pay you for your time if you speak with me." So I'd have to pay and it seemed like that was, in a way, harder than their regular job because they weren't used to talking about themselves in such an honest way.
What is your personal opinion of 'Sonny' and this profession?
Of course we would all say that it's abuse and it probably is, and a terrible thing. But from the perspective of the character I asked the writer, "How could he live in a house with his mother one more second after he became conscious of all the other ways of life and what she had done to him, and this upbringing that she had given to him?" He said, "Well it was because it was almost like being brought up in a wolf pack and they teach what they know. She was a prostitute herself and it was almost like a Geisha tradition, handing it down from one generation to the next in a darker kind of way." It makes it a little more complicated. There's a loyalty to the mother, and maybe not even being conscious of it, but feeling this deep resentment to her while still being loyal to her.
Do you think Sonny goes into the Army to get away from girls and sex, or his mother?
Really that's all he knows and that's what he's great at so that [the Army] was a release. It seems like, and within the movie, I guess what we kind of worked was that it was a temporary escape, but he didn't really fit in there either. Scott [Caan] says, "You never really came out with us." It was his first foray into a different kind of world, but I don't know, he's so kind of repressed and awkward in the outside world that it didn't pull him out all the way.
Yeah, sure, he was trying to escape the mother. What he's trying to escape of the mother is the prostitution side and everything that goes along with that. I think that if he could have his cake and eat it too, he'd still have a great relationship with his mother and be working at someplace in Texas City and everything would be grand. It was really just to escape the prostitution, but then, he was nothing. He was just kind of a no personality 'thing.'
What kind of director was Nicolas Cage? Did he speak to you differently than other directors?
He does in that he's coming from an acting standpoint. I've worked with directors with a great understanding of what all the actors are going through. But you know, it was his first time directing and I'm not saying he was inarticulate, but he didn't… Directors kind of speak in a certain way, and it was almost as if he would have to act through the scenes. He had definite feelings and opinions and ways I should go, but to articulate it he'd almost have to feel it out himself. He's got a great reference of films and performances and art and music that he likes to reference when he's directing. We talked about the feel of someone else's performance. We didn't talk about other prostitute films so much as just other feelings of other characters and how we could kind of make that our own.
I think that he's had a great career. I found also, as a director, he takes chances. He talked about his early career and things that he'd done on set that maybe even alienated people, but were admirable because he didn't have any fear of going too far. I guess that one wouldn't get anywhere without taking chances.
