Commons:Deletion requests/Images from Solkka

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Images from Solkka

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The main issue here is whether or not Solkka has the right to license these images under a Creative Commons license. I did try to start a thread at VPC regarding my suspicions but nobody answered. That thread can be found here: Commons:Village pump/Copyright/Archive/2018/01#Solkka/News In Star images.

Primarily it comes down the differing watermarks from past Solkka images and newer images from the website. All of the images here have the NewsInStar watermark. Personal investigation does not show any link between the NewsInStar website and this Tistory site and images from Tistory are listed under an All Rights Reserved type license on NewsInStar. A post on my talk page by Nyantatata indicates that the person behind the Tistory site is a photographer working for NewsInStar which would be a work for hire type contract and would make these images under a corporate copyright. Therefore, Solkka does not have the right to release them unilaterally. I hate to bring so many images to DR at once but it appears like these images were license laundered through Tistory.

Majora (talk) 22:40, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In November I spoke with a person who works at News in Star, whtjdeka@gmail.com, who confirmed to me by Gmail that he is Solkka. This was my message on November 1, 2017:
"Good afternoon! I am a user of Wikipedia in Spanish and I would like to know if a user named Solkka in Tistory is part of News in Star, since it uploads the same photos of the page under the CC-BY-SA-4.0 license. The photos that Solkka uploads are commonly uploaded to Wikimedia Commons with that license, but a few days ago a user told me that he was possibly not part of News in Star and that he possibly uploaded the photos illegally. I would appreciate your help. (sorry for my bad english)". This was his response the next day: "Hello! Thank you for Attention of our pictures. :)
And the answer is 'Yes' Both websites are got same uploader. (me of course)
Newsinstar is more like "NEWS" stuffs and solkka is more like personal feeling about Celebrity.
Again, thank you for watching our stuffs and sorry for my really bad english."
PS: I found the e-mail in a News in Star publication. SuZumiya (talk) 22:44, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But you see SuZumiya, that is my whole point. Working for a company is a de facto work for hire contract. That means that the photographer gives up their right to the images and surrenders them to the company. If this is true then these images are corporately owned. If the email you received is accurate then this DR would be valid. Solkka does not have the right to release these images. --Majora (talk) 22:52, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Then you are absolutely right. Right now I will change all those photos that are in the articles by others. SuZumiya (talk) 22:53, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
somewhat related DR: Commons:Deletion requests/File:(뮤직뱅크) 20170113 뮤뱅 출연진 라인업 - pentagon.png — regards, Revi 11:00, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
More then somewhat related. It is directly related. I'm going to have to go through all Solkka related images now. Great. --Majora (talk) 21:13, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fully aware this is 'directly' related. It was just... eeek type comment. — regards, Revi 00:35, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for making this. I actively went through a few days ago using google, restricting the domain to commons.wikimedia.org, and I attempted to find every single picture from Solkka's tistory. Ther are 149 of them. Thank you for starting this DR. I think what we need is someone who can speak Korean to reach out to NewsInStar and see if Solkka owns NewsInStar or if he is just a photographer for hire. Alternatively, if NewsInStar themselves are knowledgeable and okay with about the CC licenses. I looked through his tistory and could not find any information on the topic, unfortunately. Since SuZumiya contacted them originally, I wonder if they are able to do it again? On a different note, there are four files that are sourced from NewsInStar's YouTube channel: 1, 2, 3, & 4. I didn't put them under the "Images from Solkka" category because the channel is labelled as "NewsInStar" and not "Solkka", as well as that the videos (which are under CC) are linked officially by the NewsInStar domain itself so I'm not sure if they're an issue. You seem more knowledgeable on the topic than me. ~ Nyantatata (talk) 21:57, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What an enormous mess this website has made. They can't decide on a license. They use Creative Commons on their YouTube page, which appears fine, but a non-CC license on their main page. As for the Solkka images I'm sticking by my original analysis. This is a work for hire between Solkka (the photographer) and NewsInStar (the organization). So Solkka does not have the right to unilaterally release these images under a Creative Commons license. --Majora (talk) 23:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
但是您怎麼知道他們之間是聘用的關係?我認為在不知道的任何情況下，不應該刪除這些圖片，因為在來源上他確實是自由的圖片的不是嗎?以自己的想法來推斷並提出刪除，我認為不妥當，以上是我的想法，希望管理員可以參考。218.48.44.32 22:36, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Google translate: But how do you know the relationship between them? I do not think these pictures should be removed without any knowledge of the source, because he is really a free picture on the source. Delete, I think inappropriate, the above is my idea, I hope administrators can refer to.

How do I know? Because of the messages posted above. I'm fully aware of the source. Unless you can provide proof that these images are licensed correctly it doesn't matter what you hope. They have to be removed. --Majora (talk) 23:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
還有我也有發現到，這個來源作者在部分的圖片設定為非自由許可，因此我認為作者知道哪些圖片允許自由提供。我希望可以慎重的看待此問題。218.48.44.32 22:41, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Google translate: And I also found out that the author of this source set some of the pictures as non-free licenses, so I think the authors know which pictures are free to offer. I hope this question can be treated with caution.

Knowing how to change licenses to non-Commons acceptable versions does not change the fact that I highly doubt Solkka has any right to change the license at all. That is what a work for hire contract means. As a side note, do not remove images from a DR. That is not how this works. --Majora (talk) 23:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As I did in such case in the past, I was thinking of asking the solkka blog owner directly about this. What information do we need? If they are making this under 'work for hire'? If yes, 'do 'solkka' have relevant right to license them'?
I can think of few possible main deletion scenarios (for chinese speaker's understanding):
  1. Solkka was making this under Work For Hire (WFH hereinafter).
  2. Solkka wasn't making this under WFH, but didn't know about consequences of CCL.
  3. Solkka was making this under WFH, but has clearance for posting on tistory, but didn't know about consequences of CCL. (This and above are valid deletion rationale per PCP. For example Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Images from toto1024.tistory.com.)
Hope this helps, — regards, Revi 00:35, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not the person who started the DR but I figure what we need to know is if Solkka owns NewsInStar or if he is simply a contributor to it. I was under the impression he owns the site and thus does have the right to put the images under CC, but we've found no definitive proof of that. If he is not the ownder of the site we'd then need to know if this is under WFH or not. ~ Nyantatata (talk) 03:47, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I got this message from the person who works for News in Star: "Hello, how are you :)
My Boss is owner of newsinstar and Solkka.
and I am the photographer of Newsinstar. and upload to Solkka.
I took those pics.
I hope this answer is enough to you :)".
I do not know if it serves as something for discussion. SuZumiya (talk) 01:17, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Only to confirm what I originally thought. The photographer who uploaded them to Solkka was an employee of NewsInStar so did not own the copyright to the images and could not release them under a free license unilaterially. We also don't know if there was any prior authorization or even if the owner knew that they were releasing the images under a free license. In order to keep these images we would need their boss's permission to relicense them under a free license. Specifically, an COM:OTRS release using one of the various release templates. --Majora (talk) 02:08, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --Jcb (talk) 15:00, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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